OT: Creationism--a myth or retardation?

[wenshu]

i believe in god because everyone around me dont. if everyone around me were religious i would have stayed a devout communist.

the counterculture has become the mainstream. so now i am the counterculture.

You betrayed your race just to out hipster the white kids?

for shame, for shame

[wenshu]

Scientism is not science. Do not mistake the two. And you are incorrect. That is not skepticism, that's gullibility. I don't care what's possible. Pink, invisible goblins holding me to the earth by my big toes are possible. I care about what is PROBABLE. Probability demands evidence to substantiate the claim of its likeliness to be the case. That is skepticism.

Only 24 hours in a day. Roughly 19 or those hours I will be awake. Another hour for random philosophical thought on the toilet and random ball scratching. An hour and a half for eating. 30 min for trolling the interwebs... I don't have time to follow every dead end claim that comes my way. If there's no evidence to give me reason to consider its credibility, then its not credible. I don't care if it may even turn out to be true. If you have no supportive evidence, you didn't do your job. Don't waste my time.

My entire point was about the distinction between as you called it Scientism and science, skepticism and pseudo skepticism.

I didn't say anything about just blindly accepting whatever crazy idea floats into your Ritalin addled brain.

http://newsroom.melbourne.edu/news/n-885

This is more what I was getting at. Testable theory that challenges currently accepted models.

[bawang]

You betrayed your race just to out hipster the white kids?

for shame, for shame

i follow black jesus so its ok

chinese and the chocolate peples are brothers

[Syn7]

Here's an example.

Attitudes like this lead to my theory that science is it's own religion:



Forcing Scientists to operate in an environment where they aren't allowed to think, dream or test outside a very specific set of norms because of a very real fear of being excommunicated, proves that Science isn't always concerned with forwarding human knowledge. Like everything... it's politics.

And lets not even get in to what scientists will do to acquire or maintain funding. If they BELIEVE they are right, and it's just a matter of time(money) before they will prove it, these people may find it easier to lie about their findings in order to maintain their dream. When it turns out they were wrong this can lead to a whole big mess. Especially when other scientists working on the same things see their work and take it for gospel cause they are told it's verified. Two years later it comes out that it was all bullsh1t and now you have all these scientists caught with their pants down for cutting corners and lying because of false assumptions.

That being said, science still 110% more reliable for real world info than any religious text you will find.

Some religious texts seem to have made predictions that came true, but it's always highly subjective and open to interpretation. Like when me and DJ were discussing the Vedas.

[Syn7]

i believe in god because everyone around me dont. if everyone around me were religious i would have stayed a devout communist.

the counterculture has become the mainstream. so now i am the counterculture.

It's no secret that you're a contrarian. That says more about your emotional state than anything else tho.

[Syn7]

http://www.transcend.ws/?p=3020

a link about Gates

Oh well that just proves that we are all just highly developed characters in some kids sim game.

It's interesting, but not mind blowing. Who knows what kind of patterns you'll find if you look hard enough. If anything this suggests that our use of binary is something already found in nature. Oh wait, we already knew that.

[bawang]

It's no secret that you're a contrarian. That says more about your emotional state than anything else tho.

your emotional state is that of a woman.

[SenseiShellie]

i believe in god because everyone around me dont. if everyone around me were religious i would have stayed a devout communist.

the counterculture has become the mainstream. so now i am the counterculture.

you are the counterculture? teach me your ways oh great counterculture!

[bawang]

you are the counterculture? teach me your ways oh great counterculture!

i dont teach women unless they fornicate with me.

[SenseiShellie]

i dont teach women unless they fornicate with me.

you suck...

[Hebrew Hammer]

you suck...

I'm so tempted to be inappropriate...

[SoCo KungFu]

And lets not even get in to what scientists will do to acquire or maintain funding. If they BELIEVE they are right, and it's just a matter of time(money) before they will prove it, these people may find it easier to lie about their findings in order to maintain their dream.

Sorry bro, we have things we agree on in politics and such. But right here you show your distance from the world of science (in terms of living it). While yes, there are some instances of people abusing the system for income, what realm of human existence is NOT plagued by this problem? That's being human. But you write as though this is some big, widespread practice that the scientific community is in on to work-over the laypeople. And that's laughable. Do you know what its like to be on a deadline, to have to produce results and have to fight to PROVE the value of your work so you get that next grant? You act like money is just thrown around at scientists without regard. And that's total BS. Scientists are at the mercy of lawyers, economists and businessmen. Not the other way around. Man I WISH this were true, I'm freakin living on $10/hr and I'm working in a lab trying to cure freggin cancer...The lady swiping checkout at Aldy's is making more than me. AND she doesn't even have to get out of her **** chair...

When it turns out they were wrong this can lead to a whole big mess. Especially when other scientists working on the same things see their work and take it for gospel cause they are told it's verified. Two years later it comes out that it was all bullsh1t and now you have all these scientists caught with their pants down for cutting corners and lying because of false assumptions.

That's not a flaw of science, that's a flaw of being human. And what is it that leads to the discovery that previously held inaccuracies were in fact, inaccurate? The scientific method. That strict "dogma" of testing and validation. This is the self correcting mechanism of science. This is what, while at times painful, separates science from religion. Again, you seem to believe as though there's some sinister mechanism at work. Its more bubbling idiocy and shoddy work.

That being said, science still 110% more reliable for real world info than any religious text you will find.

Agreed. Look I know you aren't some tin foil wearing conspiracy theorist. So don't take my tone personally. But some of the BS on this forum is just ridiculous.

Some religious texts seem to have made predictions that came true, but it's always highly subjective and open to interpretation. Like when me and DJ were discussing the Vedas.

That's because religious texts are, for all their baggage, simply observations of the world around them in the context of their understanding at that time. Yeah, they'll get a few things right. So what? I'd be more surprised if nothing were correct. And more worried.

This claim that science is becoming the new religion is just stupid. Sorry, being "open minded" to every BS claim under the sun is not productive. Bring evidence and you'll eventually be taken seriously. Let me add, you'll be taken seriously, IF the evidence is sound. Not like that crap in the thread here about monks levitating boulders with sound...

[SenseiShellie]

I'm so tempted to be inappropriate...

give into temptation...

[Syn7]

That's because religious texts are, for all their baggage, simply observations of the world around them in the context of their understanding at that time. Yeah, they'll get a few things right. So what? I'd be more surprised if nothing were correct. And more worried.

This claim that science is becoming the new religion is just stupid. Sorry, being "open minded" to every BS claim under the sun is not productive. Bring evidence and you'll eventually be taken seriously. Let me add, you'll be taken seriously, IF the evidence is sound. Not like that crap in the thread here about monks levitating boulders with sound...

Yeah, SoCo, don't take what I said personally. It was by no means a shot at you and yours. I stand by the comment I made, but I will clear some things up for you. First, yes, I do know what it takes to acquire and maintain granted funds. I have personally been a part of that process, although I was not the principle on the grant and wasn't the one who had tyo justify the funds. But I was there and I was a part of all those discussions. Second... I never said it was a big problem. I'm just sayin, it does happen, and it will happen again. When you submit your research in order to receive further funding the fact checking isn't always as rigorous as it should/could be. They may go over the data with a fine tooth comb, but unless they insist on being a part of the process they don't really have a way to check your work in the kind of depth it would take to expose a clever fudging of the data to support hypothesis. Also it depends on the size of the grant and the importance of the work to those that are paying for it. If they give 40 million for Cancer research they will check much harder than they will for 100 grand to figure out why some fish is where it is and how it got there. They may spend a few hundred grand to justify 40 million, but they aren't going to invest much into verifying all the data submitted on a much smaller grant. That being said, I don't think it's a widespread problem and I don't think it's as common as maybe you think I was saying. But it does happen and it will happen again. Bias, on the other hand, is a problem. Like you said, it's a problem in all areas of all things. I agree. And I gotta say, doing cancer research for 10 bucks an hour is bullsh1t, man I hope you are still in school. That's the only way that wage makes sense, if you're a low paid intern. Otherwise, man... Wow, I respect the dedication, but ****. You must be a hungry motherfukcer. LOL

And I agree, science is not a religion and I don't feel the term dogma is as accurate as a handful of other words that make more sense. Also the term dogma creates bias because it is so associated to religion. I also agree about that what some people call "proof" is absolute bullsh1t.

I think we are much closer to the same page than you may have thought from what I wrote. I never said it was a widespread problem. All I was doing was showing how science can be abused when facts aren't checked properly and fully peer reviewed. And believe me, even today, a TON of federal grants are going to junk science and the idiots that perpetrate such idiocy. I won't even get into what is privately funded. So yeah, people who you deem as credible may not be able to get away with it, but there are those that do. It's very disappointing because it only puts fuel on the fire of those who don't really understand the whole peer review concept. They think peer reviewed means finding a few guys who think like you to give your trash some credibility. Unfortunately junk science makes real science look bad. Even if the more intelligent and/or educated know the difference, there's always that majority who doesn't know what they're being told is crap and have no way to check those facts. Some of those people are in position to either fund crap or sh1t on something that is actually really solid. I mean, how many real important projects have lost funding because of disinformation or misinformation? TONS.

It is getting much better though. It just isn't as easy to sell snake oil when we are all connected and have access to so much data that the average guy couldn't have found so easily even 10 years ago. Even the most rural areas are plugged in to the grid now. The world is getting exponentially smaller.

[Lucas]

I'm so tempted to be inappropriate...

As they say, great minds....