Shaolin Temple & Buddhism

[blooming lotus]

Is there a monk in the house?

[Citong Shifu]

I was wondering if any of you were aware that throughout Shaolin's 1500 year history, Buddhism "WAS NOT" the only religion / philosophy taught or practiced?

"Maybe not in recent years", but confisianism, daoism, confisian/daoist hybrid mixes, muslim, etc all had been the doctrines of the Shaolin Temple. Even christianity has seen its day at the S. Temple...

The reason I bring this up is that Modern Shaolin Temple (PRC & SS) has shoveled this under the rug, so to speak, and have forbid others to speak the truth concerning this issue.

Just curious about this.

CS

[B-Rad]

Nope, had no idea. Any reliable sources in English for reading up on this, or am I pretty much out of luck until my Chinese gets better?

[r.(shaolin)]

The reason I bring this up is that Modern Shaolin Temple (PRC & SS) has shoveled this under the rug, so to speak, and have forbid others to speak the truth concerning this issue.

I don't know about Muslim but, "Confucian /Daoist / Buddhist hybrid(s)" are very much part of Shaolin and Chan history. There is either some sensitivities or some monks simply just don't know the history and background of Chan. Here is how one Shaolin monk replied to me:

"Taoists and Buddhist were NEVER kept friendships like brothers of the same sect. Their teachings are totally opposite, so this was not possible. I will not expand more on this subject due to the complexity everyone’s refer to."

Why do you say forbidden?
r.

[Citong Shifu]

I don't know about muslim(ism) but "confisian /daoist / Buddhist hybrid(s)" are very much part of Shaolin and Chan history. There is either some sensitivities or some of the monks there just don't know. Here is how one Shaolin monk replied to me:


Why do you say "forbid"?
r.

r.(shaolin),
I will explain more (forbid) a little later. I want to see what some of the other replies are first. For very good reasons.

On Shaolin monk's reply - "Buddhism & Daoism are completely opposite". Only in the aspects of "religion", but their philosophies are the same, only worded different...??????.... Believe it or not... This is not hard to prove unless one is caught up on the "religion".... ???????????

Anyway, Lets hear some other replies first. Surely this isn't the first time this has been brought up...

CS

[bawang]

buddhism and taoism are somewaht similar,
unorthodox: (pure land buddhism and folk taoism both have gods and paradise
orthodox: buddhists reach nirvana while taoists reach the "void"

"Only in the aspects of "religion", but their philosophies are the same, only worded different"
their philosophies are the same but they ARE religions, hence different

taoists worship the immortals and taiji qiankun emperor, buddhists worship luohans and buddhas, so they have rival gods.

[Citong Shifu]

buddhism and taoism are somewaht similar,
unorthodox: (pure land buddhism and folk taoism both have gods and paradise
orthodox: buddhists reach nirvana while taoists reach the "void"

"Only in the aspects of "religion", but their philosophies are the same, only worded different"
their philosophies are the same but they ARE religions, hence different

taoists worship the immortals and taiji qiankun emperor, buddhists worship luohans and buddhas, so they have rival gods.

Thats my point, "religion". This will make more sense real soon. Bare with me..

CS.

[LFJ]

"Maybe not in recent years", but confisianism, daoism, confisian/daoist hybrid mixes, muslim, etc all had been the doctrines of the Shaolin Temple. Even christianity has seen its day at the S. Temple...

they have all been "the doctrines of the shaolin temple"? you mean the monks there have once even held christianity as their doctrine?

it may have been wrong wording, but i dont agree with that at all.

basically, my view on the topic is this:

shaolin temple, at its founding was of nikaya buddhism with batuo, then chan buddhism with damo's lineage, and from the song dynasty until now it was of caodong chan with fuyu's lineage.

regardless of who may have visited and mingled or even took up residence, it did not interfere with these lineages- the only lineages recognized in shaolin temple history. what that means is that no one can officially take over the temple and change its doctrine without the previous lineage ending- such as when damo introduced chan, which the monks adopted, while nikaya buddhism faded.

it matters not who forces their way in and what they practice and/or teach. if it is not officially adopted as the new doctrine and a new lineage takes over while the previous ends, its simply something that floated around the temple- never to take root.

it has always been a buddhist temple. whether nikaya buddhism for 32 years, or chan buddhism and caodong chan until now. even if you acknowledge yongxin's new monks hired from pureland temples to portray a buddhist image. still, pureland is buddhist.

its simply impossible for a temple to represent three or more different religions at once too, as i've heard said. i find that highly illogical.

and my view on buddhism and daosim is that their philosophies are not quite the same. that becomes clearly evident when either path is not merely studied but lived to any significant level. which i say based on my own experience.

[Citong Shifu]

they have all been "the doctrines of the shaolin temple"? you mean the monks there have once even held christianity as their doctrine?

it may have been wrong wording, but i dont agree with that at all.

basically, my view on the topic is this:

shaolin temple, at its founding was of nikaya buddhism with batuo, then chan buddhism with damo's lineage, and from the song dynasty until now it was of caodong chan with fuyu's lineage.

regardless of who may have visited and mingled or even took up residence, it did not interfere with these lineages- the only lineages recognized in shaolin temple history. what that means is that no one can officially take over the temple and change its doctrine without the previous lineage ending- such as when damo introduced chan, which the monks adopted, while nikaya buddhism faded.

it matters not who forces their way in and what they practice and/or teach. if it is not officially adopted as the new doctrine and a new lineage takes over while the previous ends, its simply something that floated around the temple- never to take root.

it has always been a buddhist temple. whether nikaya buddhism for 32 years, or chan buddhism and caodong chan until now. even if you acknowledge yongxin's new monks hired from pureland temples to portray a buddhist image. still, pureland is buddhist.

its simply impossible for a temple to represent three or more different religions at once too, as i've heard said. i find that highly illogical.

and my view on buddhism and daosim is that their philosophies are not quite the same. that becomes clearly evident when either path is not merely studied but lived to any significant level. which i say based on my own experience.

I never said that these religions/philosophies were "represented at one time". Its understood that Buddhism has played the biggest role at Shaolin, but not the only role throughout its history... Furthermore, new doctorines were formed and ended, these lineage have been destroyed and kept hidden for many years. Shaolin like PRC cant let the lineage have holes. Everyone knows that in order to show purity, the lineage must not be distorted at all....

[LFJ]

I never said that these religions/philosophies were "represented at one time".

you said they all had been "the doctrine of shaolin temple". i disagree. they may have been there, but were never the doctrine of the shaolin temple.

Shaolin like PRC cant let the lineage have holes.

really? why not? what has shaolin got to hide? the dharma can be picked up and set down by anyone at anytime.

everyone knows there have been periods where the temple was without an abbot, when various monks acted as abbot. but the dharma doesnt have holes.

this is chan, who cares?!

Everyone knows that in order to show purity, the lineage must not be distorted at all....

and what is this purity, and why is it so important? and who cares?!

The point I'm making here is that one does not have to be or practice Buddhism to become highly skilled or master Shaolin Kungfu...

if this is your only point you've been waiting to make, its kind of late. everyone knows that.

Shaolin Temple has had a mix of doctorines throughout its history and kungfu development

the shaolin temple had a mix of doctrines enter, just like that tibetan monk i know who holds tibetan buddhist services at a christian church. but just like the doctrine "of that church" remains of christianity despite whatever else has a presence there, the shaolin temple has always been a buddhist temple.

and none of these religions/philosophies made the kungfu of shaolin or monk any better at the martial arts

a statement made of your own observation or assumption? a philosophy that trains one to understand and control their mind would definitely help bring about improvement with greater focus in training. and why not?

its a proven fact that emotional states have effects on motor skills. try balancing drills, strength exercises, or even flexibility training when upset. you'll find your training will not be as effective and your coordination will be off. do you know anything about how the brain works and connects everything from emotions to motor skills?

Now, especially through Songshan lineage, they completely mislead the world with these types of statements.

thats a crock, my friend. no one has made such a statement. you have simply misunderstood the point.

i'm reminded of the shaolin ulysses documentary where shi xinghong was talking about shi suxi asking him how he thought his gongfu was. shi xinghong naturally said "not bad, pretty good"- to which shi suxi replied saying he thought xinghong would never become a really great practitioner. the reason being because his "heart was not silent enough, it was floating".

thats the reason! when you realize that and learn how to silence your heart and plant your feet on the ground you will immediately improve a great deal. suxi said nothing about "buddhism". he didnt say because you havent studied the buddha's word enough.

he said simply because his heart was not silent, it was floating.

and any path which leads to silencing the heart and planting ones feet on the ground will improve ones gongfu and allow them to reach a higher level of mastery.

so basically, your whole idea for this thread was way late. and you've misinterpreted much, or else were just misinformed.

but it was not unimportant nor unnecessary. so thanks for starting such a thread as a great reminder!

peace!

[Pk_StyLeZ]

its a proven fact that emotional states have effects on motor skills. try balancing drills, strength exercises, or even flexibility training when upset. you'll find your training will not be as effective and your coordination will be off. do you know anything about how the brain works and connects everything from emotions to motor skills?

i agree with this
emotional status does affect one training A LOT
usually students who are happy.....train much more harder and actually try to learn.....
students who are mad..just use their power like crazy and go all out
students who are sad...usually..dont try in class...and look so down...and lost..and just dont giv a rat ass.....
this is what i noticed

[richard sloan]

its a proven fact that emotional states have effects on motor skills. try balancing drills, strength exercises, or even flexibility training when upset. you'll find your training will not be as effective and your coordination will be off. do you know anything about how the brain works and connects everything from emotions to motor skills?

hence the cultivation of no mind and the flat heart, why hui ke was taken to drum mountain.

[Citong Shifu]

you said they all had been "the doctrine of shaolin temple". i disagree. they may have been there, but were never the doctrine of the shaolin temple.



really? why not? what has shaolin got to hide? the dharma can be picked up and set down by anyone at anytime.

everyone knows there have been periods where the temple was without an abbot, when various monks acted as abbot. but the dharma doesnt have holes.

this is chan, who cares?!



and what is this purity, and why is it so important? and who cares?!



if this is your only point you've been waiting to make, its kind of late. everyone knows that.



the shaolin temple had a mix of doctrines enter, just like that tibetan monk i know who holds tibetan buddhist services at a christian church. but just like the doctrine "of that church" remains of christianity despite whatever else has a presence there, the shaolin temple has always been a buddhist temple.



a statement made of your own observation or assumption? a philosophy that trains one to understand and control their mind would definitely help bring about improvement with greater focus in training. and why not?

its a proven fact that emotional states have effects on motor skills. try balancing drills, strength exercises, or even flexibility training when upset. you'll find your training will not be as effective and your coordination will be off. do you know anything about how the brain works and connects everything from emotions to motor skills?



thats a crock, my friend. no one has made such a statement. you have simply misunderstood the point.

i'm reminded of the shaolin ulysses documentary where shi xinghong was talking about shi suxi asking him how he thought his gongfu was. shi xinghong naturally said "not bad, pretty good"- to which shi suxi replied saying he thought xinghong would never become a really great practitioner. the reason being because his "heart was not silent enough, it was floating".

thats the reason! when you realize that and learn how to silence your heart and plant your feet on the ground you will immediately improve a great deal. suxi said nothing about "buddhism". he didnt say because you havent studied the buddha's word enough.

he said simply because his heart was not silent, it was floating.

and any path which leads to silencing the heart and planting ones feet on the ground will improve ones gongfu and allow them to reach a higher level of mastery.

so basically, your whole idea for this thread was way late. and you've misinterpreted much, or else were just misinformed.

but it was not unimportant nor unnecessary. so thanks for starting such a thread as a great reminder!

peace!

I dont want to go "tit for tat", but Shaolin (PRC) has much to hide and will continue to hiding the true facts. Purity, well modern Shaolin Temple has started this debate. As far as a philosophy that trains one's mind, I agree. I believe this is very important. My comment was made due to the restrictions placed on what philosophy/ies could be used...

Example - I also train and teach Ziranmen which is daoist. My sifu was a private disciple of Wan laishen. Now, when I first strarted training ZRM and its philosophy I quickly learned learned that 99% of the difference between my Shaolin and ZRM was strategy/ies. Sure, the philosophy was different but only by wording (like when two people are discussing the same thing but in diferent ways)... I guess one could totally take them in two different directions, of course, but the goal is to maintain simplicity.

[GeneChing]

Shaolin Temple invites calligraphy lovers to copy scriptures
Xinhua | 2014-4-13 8:50:20
By Agencies

The Shaolin Temple, the cradle of Chinese kung fu, has invited 10,000 lovers of Chinese calligraphy around the world to copy Buddhist scriptures by hand.

"The activity will not only preserve classic Buddhist literature, but also help people cultivate themselves in line with Buddhism doctrines," said Shi Yanzhi, a grand master of the Buddhist temple in Dengfeng, central China's Henan Province.

The handwritten Buddhist scriptures will be kept in a six-meter-high depository recently rebuilt in the temple with 520 drawers, capable of preserving 10,000 Buddhist scriptures to last 1,000 years, said Shi.

Applicants should first mail a sample of their calligraphic work, the Heart Sutra written in regular script with Chinese brush, to Shaolin Temple. The qualified ones will receive tailor-made paper from the temple.

Intriguing project. Did not see this one coming...

[GeneChing]

Increase your happiness index!

Shaolin Temple Launches Chan Hall in C China's City
2014-09-22 19:24:20 CRIENGLISH.com Web Editor: Liu


Shaolin Temple Abbot Shi Yongxin and eminent monks attend the openining ceremony of Chan Hall in the city of Zhengzhou, capital of Central China's Henan Province on September 20, 2014. [Photo: CFP]

Songshan Shaolin Temple has launched Chan Hall, a room for urbanites to practice meditation in Zhengdong New Area, Zhengzhou city, capital of Henan Province on Saturday, Chinanews.com reports.

Chan Hall aims to let urbanites meditate, read Buddhist scriptures and take part in social and charity activities.

Unlike monks who practice meditation in the hall, urbanites can often leave behind annoying things in their lives that keep from getting the most out of meditation in Chan Hall, said Shaolin Temple Abbot Shi Yongxin.

"We hope meditation can incorporate into people's daily life, which help urbanites relieve of anxieties to increase their happiness indexes," Shi said.


City Hall in the city was inaugurated by Shaolin Temple Abbot Shi Yongxin on September 20, 2014 in Zhengdong New Area, Zhengzhou city, capital of Central China's Henan Province. [Photo: CFP]


Shaolin Temple Abbot Shi Yongxin (C) attends the openining ceremony of Chan Hall in the city of Zhengzhou, capital of Central China's Henan Province on September 20, 2014. [Photo: CFP]