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Thread: Kaifeng Jew-Fu

  1. #1
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    Kaifeng Jew-Fu

    I am currently writing an historical fiction novel set in 11th and 12th century Jerusalem and China. I don't want to go into great detail (for personal reasons), but the story revolves around one of the Jews of the Kaifeng Jewish community that joins the army of Song Dynasty General Yue Fei.

    Most people are surprised to learn that Jews actually lived in ancient China. Jews have traded in China since the Tang Dynasty (618-907 CE), but many scholars believe a community was first founded in Kaifeng City, Henan province during the early part of the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127). However, one of the three stelae (rock edicts) created during the Ming and Qing Dynasties claim they had lived in China since the Han Dynasty (206 BCE – 220 CE). You can read more about the Jews of China here and here. Please keep in mind, the linked articles are not very good, but they serve their purpose of detailing these Jews.

    One scholarly source claims that "Israelites" served in the armies under General Yue Fei. You can read a short section on Chinese Jew military service here. I wrote the entry based on info from several books on the subject. Just to let you guys know, I actually came up with the idea of the Jew fighting in Yue's army well before I found out about its true historical origins. Needless to say, I was very happy!

    The only mixed inhabitants of China that even come close to the Jews are the Hui-muslims. During the Song, the two groups were often confused for each other. Now the Hui are known for the martial prowess. They have sword styles like the "prophet's sword" and boxing arts like the "Eight elbow style". Since the Hui developed their own arts, I'm sure the Jews would have developed some of their own. But the point of this thread is not to actually prove the existence of such arts. The main character does learn some martial arts during his lifetime, but it is only a small portion of the actual story. I am just interested in what you guys think this "Jew-fu" (no offense to anyone) might look like.

    I have always read tales about powerful Buddhist, Taoist, and Muslim martial arts masters. I think it's time we brought another of China's minorities into the spotlight! This genre is completely new territory.

    I have one idea for a style based upon animals mentioned in Jewish passages. The sage Yehudah ben Teima made two statements which are cited in the "Ethics of the Fathers."

    Be as bold as a leopard, light as an eagle, swift as a deer, and strong as a lion, to do the will of our Heavenly Father. (5:23)
    When I first read this, I thought that statement could also apply to the martial arts. There is no need to decipher any kind of secret code. The style would be based upon the movements of the leopard, eagle, deer, and lion and the statement itself would apply to the overall fighting philosophy of the art.

    I am not Jewish, so I would like if others more knowledgeable on Jewish passages could comment with their own ideas. And please refrain from racial slurs.
    Last edited by ghostexorcist; 10-22-2007 at 11:33 AM.

  2. #2
    cjurakpt Guest
    stop Phoenix from rising

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjurakpt View Post
    stop Phoenix from rising
    Who gives a **** about this Phoenix that everyone seems to hate! Please don't bring your little war into this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostexorcist View Post
    Who gives a **** about this Phoenix that everyone seems to hate! Please don't bring your little war into this thread.
    chill

    cjurakpt was actually just bumping your thread up to the 1st page as we had an interloper who decided to start a gazillion threads which push all other discussion into the deep dark recess of this forum, the second or third page.
    dazed and confused

  5. #5
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    I had a book years ago called Manderins and Jews,or something like that, which was all about the Jewish community in Kaifeng.
    Also in Shanghai. Shanghai was where the "underground railroad" smuggled jews out of Russia. My ex's Mom's family hid many jewish people during those times.

  6. #6
    I have relatives actually knew and traded with Jewish district in Shanghai in the 30's.

    Kaifeng was the capital city of Song dynasty.

    there were many legends for this period.

    also many novels written. I like the judge Bao Qing Tian with a dark face and a crescent moon birthmark on forehead. He was Kaifeng Fu Yin or chief public security officer/police commissioner appointed by the emperor.

    --

    yes, there are legends of lion division, leopard division, etc. but they may not be real.

    --


  7. #7
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    I am currently writing an historical fiction novel set in 11th and 12th century Jerusalem and China.
    You can’t because I am
    Last edited by Mano Mano; 10-22-2007 at 10:57 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mano Mano View Post
    You can’t because I am
    Good for you.

  9. #9
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    I wish you luck, as I’ve discovered the myriad paths you go down during your research is unbelievable even just for one character. I’m now starting to understand why some writers set their stories in fantasy worlds.

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    This reminded me of that "abir warrior arts", what's the deal with that? Guy does kung fu and calls it ancient holy israeli war dance.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    This reminded me of that "abir warrior arts", what's the deal with that? Guy does kung fu and calls it ancient holy israeli war dance.
    Actually it was Korean Kuk Sool Won.

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  13. #13
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4QApzExgSo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9EwB-afKYM

    river all red. or man jiang hong.

    the most known episode about Yue Fei.


  14. #14

  15. #15
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    what was (is) the ethnicity of jews in Kaifeng? Are they all russian or are some Chinese as well?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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