Degrees of Black Sash?

[masherdong]

Hello all,

I was just wondering if there are degrees of black sash just like in other systems of martial arts. I know that traditional kung fu has no belt or ranking system. Years of experience is what was accounted for. I am still new to mantis kung fu so I wanted to throw this out there. Please let me know what you all think.

[mkriii]

yes there are levels (or degrees) of black sash. In kung fu most schools call it level though instead of degree. For example, I'm a 2nd level black sash. The only kung fu school that I know that calls it degree is Sin The' and they wear the Japanese Gi instead of the traditional chinese uniform and wear a belt instead of the sash.

[Danny Eckart]

That is a question that has more than one answer. My school uses no Sash or belt levels at all. I have been in schools that mimic the Judo belt ranking system, and I have been in schools that only have three sash levels, Novice, intermediate and advanced.

I think for the most part, the majority of schools do use Sash levels or degrees now but there are still quite a few who do not. It is more of an orginazation or instructors choice. There is no one standarized ranking system that we all follow.


Danny

[Satori Science]

My Mantis borther's school, he is a studnet of Jonh Funk they have 4 levels of black belt, or 4 levels of instructor. The 4th being system graduate. My borther Sifu Josh recently passed his third level instructor test.

In our CLF school my teacher also uses four levels of instructor, the 4th as graduate/Sifu and a 5th being the certification as master. I'm am gearing up to take my 2nd level test in the nest few weeks and my brother is about to take his third level. My SIfu has authorized two 5th levels in his teaching career.

[Codeboy]

We have no belt ranking in our school. We have the Sifu and two instructors and that is it. I guess since the curriculum is fairly standard, you know where you stand. When anyone asks my Sifu, "what belt is this or that person", his response is always that each student knows where they stand compared to the others. I find that to be pretty true. I would know if my skills had advanced past the level of another student without having a belt tell me so.

I can see where it might be more beneficial for young kids. Since they usually don't see the big picture, having a belt is more tangible to them and is something they can work towards.

[LFJ]

When anyone asks my Sifu, "what belt is this or that person", his response is always that each student knows where they stand compared to the others. I find that to be pretty true. I would know if my skills had advanced past the level of another student without having a belt tell me so.

the funny thing is, a belt cant tell you if your skills have advanced past the level of another. i've seen some pretty horrible "black belts" who couldnt whip their way out of a wet paper bag.

and also, you shouldnt be looking at where you stand compared to the others. you should only be concerned with where you stand with yourself at any given stage.

[EarthDragon]

Great question Masher,
As others have said traditionally there is no colors just a silk wrap to hold up your pants. however for the americanized thinking achivement 8 step in this country has 5 levels of black sash.
This........ to some makes you feel like you have earned your color or moved up the martial arts ladder.............

[Chop Socki]

I'm with EarthDragon on this one; LFJ makes a very nice point too.

We use no colored sashes, stripes, etc. to indicate rank. I think traditionally, the concept of 'level' is hard to nail down because there are so many things other than 'how many forms you know' or 'how many tests you've taken' that should factor into it, and many of those other things are more important.

My understanding matches what a few others have already shared - that all the 'visible' signs of rank were added later when martial arts were turned into a business, primarily because paying customers - whether kids or adults - like visible signs of achievement. Not everyone is satisfied with an 'atta boy.

- CS

[Codeboy]

the funny thing is, a belt cant tell you if your skills have advanced past the level of another. i've seen some pretty horrible "black belts" who couldnt whip their way out of a wet paper bag.

and also, you shouldnt be looking at where you stand compared to the others. you should only be concerned with where you stand with yourself at any given stage.

I agree with you 100%. I guess that was what I was trying to say. I've seen those black belts that couldn't touch their toes before

True, I should be focused strictly on where my skills are not others. Comparison doesn't really get you anywhere but I guess it does help me to push myself or to see what others can achieve.

It seems that I always find that once I think I have "achieved" a proficiency at something, I realize I am only understanding a small piece of the whole

I'm sure others would agree, but I find the soft-hard concept to be the most difficult to be consistent with. Working on techniques last night I thought I was in a perfect position to pull my partner into the next punch but when my Sifu saw what I was doing, he turned it around completely into a soft technique that was much more effective! Sorry, I'm rambling now.....

[MightyB]

My Sifu does have guidelines for beginner, intermediate, advanced, and desciple. They're loose guidelines- but they do help with organizing an effective teaching plan. There are no belts though. Just the level guidelines.

CB- if you look- you may be able to find an old copy of the handbook. It'd be in a 3 ring binder. It's not really used much anymore but it'd give you a good idea of what's expected of you.

[Codeboy]

Hey MightyB -

I think we have the same Sifu. I've heard your name mentioned by Sifu Chung before but I don't think I've ever met you. I've only been at the school for almost two years now.

[MightyB]

Hey CB,

Hopefully he didn't say anything too bad...

Anyway- HS Football seaon is winding down so I'll be able to come up and train with you guys a couple of times a month.

See you then,

The B