The passing of another American Hero

[BM2]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...jPtbQD8SL8SHG0
I got to met him three times over the years . I thanked him that I and my sons were here because of his service to our country.
My father was in the 27th Army Division, and was one of thirteen men out of 330 that wasn't killed between the Battle of Saipan and the Battle of Okinawa. He had a bronze arrow head on his service ribbon for the initial assault landing on Saipan and Okinawa . He told me that the landing on Okinawa had been uncontested, the Japanese were waiting inland and opened up on them with artillery and mortars. They all expected the assault of the home islands that was planned to take place in 1946 to be even more horrible.

[Black Jack II]

Yeah,

With today's climate he most certain did not get the coverage that he should of.

[1bad65]

He was a great guy. He said he always slept just fine at night too. And that if he had to do it all over again he would still drop the bomb.

[BM2]

I commissioned a painting of the Enola Gay and had the surviving crew members of the Enola Gay, two crewmen of the U.S.S. Indianapolis which delivered the two atomic bombs, a crewman of the second atomic mission and who also piloted The Great Artiste, a plane which conducted scientific measurements that flew with the Enola Gay on the Hiroshima bomb run.

[WinterPalm]

Funny that we celebrate such atrocities like the atomic bomb and the horrible lingering effects they've had and all the hundreds of thousands of people who have had their lives destroyed by it.

In the pilot's defense, he was just following orders like all soldiers.

[Mr Punch]

Another heroic pawn dies.

[sanjuro_ronin]

He was a great guy. He said he always slept just fine at night too. And that if he had to do it all over again he would still drop the bomb.

Really?
Even knowing now what wasn't known then?

[1bad65]

Really?
Even knowing now what wasn't known then?

Yup.

Speaking of dying, the winter of 1946 in Japan was quite severe. The entire nation was blockaded at that time. Many more would have starved to death than died in the bombings if the war had not been ended.

Also, Japan started the war. The Japanese were warned of dire consequences if they did not surrender in the weeks leading up to the bombings. Remember; if you mess with the bull, you get the horns.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yup.

Speaking of dying, the winter of 1946 in Japan was quite severe. The entire nation was blockaded at that time. Many more would have starved to death than died in the bombings if the war had not been ended.

Also, Japan started the war. The Japanese were warned of dire consequences if they did not surrender in the weeks leading up to the bombings. Remember; if you mess with the bull, you get the horns.

Hindsight is 20-20 I guess.

[lkfmdc]

when all was said and done, the two bombs killed about 500,000 people (day of attacks, and later on cancer, complications, etc)

conservative military estimates on BOHT sides said that a land invasion of Japan would have killed 4 to 5 million, US military, Japanese military and of course Japanese civilians

something to think about

[sanjuro_ronin]

when all was said and done, the two bombs killed about 500,000 people (day of attacks, and later on cancer, complications, etc)

conservative military estimates on BOHT sides said that a land invasion of Japan would have killed 4 to 5 million, US military, Japanese military and of course Japanese civilians

something to think about

I think the biggest issue most people have is the choice of targets.
Also. its not at all conclusive that Japan would have indeed, "fought to the last man".

But again, this is now, then was then.

[Drake]

I think the biggest issue most people have is the choice of targets.
Also. its not at all conclusive that Japan would have indeed, "fought to the last man".

But again, this is now, then was then.

This is why Hiroshima was targeted;

Why did the US choose Hiroshima as the first target for the atomic bomb?

Answer

The Target Committee at Los Alamos on May 10?11, 1945, recommended Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama and the arsenal at Kokura as possible targets. The committee rejected the use of the weapon against a strictly military objective due to the chance of missing a small target not surrounded by a larger urban area. The psychological effects on Japan were of great importance to the committee members. They also agreed that the initial use of the weapon should be sufficiently spectacular for its importance to be internationally recognized. The committee felt Kyoto, as an intellectual center of Japan, had a population "better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon." Hiroshima was chosen due to its large size, its being "an important army depot" and the potential that the bomb would cause greater destruction due to its being surrounded by hills which would have a "focusing effect".

Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson struck Kyoto from the list because of its cultural significance, over the objections of Gen. Leslie Groves, head of the Manhattan Project. According to Professor Edwin O. Reischauer, Stimson "had known and admired Kyoto ever since his honeymoon there several decades earlier." On July 25 General Carl Spaatz was ordered to bomb one of the targets: Hiroshima, Kokura, Niigata or Nagasaki as soon after August 3 as weather permitted, and the remaining cities as additional weapons became available.




At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of considerable industrial and military significance. Even some military camps were located nearby, such as the headquarters of the Fifth Division and Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan. Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops. It was one of several Japanese cities left deliberately untouched by American bombing, allowing an ideal environment to measure the damage caused by the atomic bomb. Another account stresses that after General Spaatz reported that Hiroshima was the only targeted city without POW-camps, Washington decided to assign it highest priority.



The center of the city contained a number of reinforced concrete buildings and lighter structures. Outside the center, the area was congested by a dense collection of small wooden workshops set among Japanese houses. A few larger industrial plants lay near the outskirts of the city. The houses were of wooden construction with tile roofs, and many of the industrial buildings also were of wood frame construction. The city as a whole was highly susceptible to fire damage.



The population of Hiroshima had reached a peak of over 381,000 earlier in the war, but prior to the atomic bombing the population had steadily decreased because of a systematic evacuation ordered by the Japanese government. At the time of the attack the population was approximately 255,000. This figure is based on the registered population used by the Japanese in computing ration quantities, and the estimates of additional workers and troops who were brought into the city may be inaccurate.



Hiroshima was the primary target of the first U.S. nuclear attack mission, on August 6, 1945. The B-29 Enola Gay, piloted and commanded by Colonel Paul Tibbets, was launched from Tinian airbase in the West Pacific, approximately 6 hours' flight time away from Japan. The drop date of the 6th was chosen because there had previously been a cloud formation over the target. At the time of launch, the weather was good, and the crew and equipment functioned properly. Navy Captain William Parsons armed the bomb during the flight, since it had been left unarmed to minimize the risks during takeoff. In every detail, the attack was carried out exactly as planned, and the gravity bomb, a gun-type fission weapon, with 60 kg (130 pounds) of uranium-235, performed precisely as expected.




About an hour before the bombing, the Japanese early warning radar net detected the approach of some American aircraft headed for the southern part of Japan. The alert had been given and radio broadcasting stopped in many cities, among them Hiroshima. The planes approached the coast at a very high altitude. At nearly 08:00, the radar operator in Hiroshima determined that the number of planes coming in was very small?probably not more than three?and the air raid alert was lifted. (To save gasoline, the Japanese had decided not to intercept small formations, which were assumed to be weather planes.) The three planes present were the Enola Gay (named after Colonel Tibbets' mother), The Great Artiste (a recording and surveying craft), and a then-nameless plane later called Necessary Evil (the photographing plane). The normal radio broadcast warning was given to the people that it might be advisable to go to air-raid shelters if B-29s were actually sighted, but no raid was expected beyond some sort of reconnaissance. At 08:15, the Enola Gay dropped the nuclear bomb called "Little Boy" over the center of Hiroshima. It exploded about 600 meters (2,000 feet) above the city with a blast equivalent to 13 kilotons of TNT, killing an estimated 70,000?80,000 people. At least 11 U.S. POWs also died. Infrastructure damage was estimated at 90% of Hiroshima's buildings being either damaged or completely destroyed.

And while you can't say for 100% if Japan would've fought to the last man, you cannot possibly argue that the odds were leaning strongly in favor of that happening.

edit: I took everything except the last sentence from Wiki Answer

[1bad65]

its not at all conclusive that Japan would have indeed, "fought to the last man".

Odds are very high they indeed would have. Look at these Japanese causalty lists from major battles late in the war:

Saipan:
24,000 killed
921 prisoners
5,000 suicides- Many of these were civilians who jumped off 'Banzai Cliff' rather than surrender to US force. Many would throw their own children over first or jump while holding their children

Iwo Jima:
20,703 dead
216 captured

Okinawa:
66,000 dead or missing
17,000 wounded
7,455 captured
150,000 civilians dead or missing

[Mr Punch]

Odds are very high they indeed would have. Look at these Japanese causalty lists from major battles late in the war:

Saipan:
24,000 killed
921 prisoners
5,000 suicides- Many of these were civilians who jumped off 'Banzai Cliff' rather than surrender to US force. Many would throw their own children over first or jump while holding their children

Iwo Jima:
20,703 dead
216 captured

Okinawa:
66,000 dead or missing
17,000 wounded
7,455 captured
150,000 civilians dead or missing

Many of the civilians in Saipan were military families and were subject to the same indoctrination as the army. Iwo Jima was all army. The dead civilians in Okinawa were largely killed by or forced suicides by the Japanese army. Don't forget Okinawa was not considered part of Japan proper and Okinawans were not considered really Japanese: therefore expnedable. You'll note I'm not justifying any of their actions, nor am I completely condemning the theory that they would have fought to the last with this hindsight.

However, Japan had been at war since the 1931 and on and off since the turn of the century. Many military families were opposed to the War (Yamamoto among many many others), as were many civilians. They had seen their heritage melted down for munitions and were on iron rations far worse than their Western counterparts. If you look at the speed in which the US returned power to the Japanese govt after the war to counter all the revolutionary movements you'll begin to understand just how tenuous the govt's control of the populace was in the war. Their propaganda was all that was keeping the Japanese people going and for many that wasn't enough. There was also a huge communist sympathy in Japan that even continues to some extent till today. There much less faith in the emperor than many westerners would have had you believe.

In largely civilian areas such as Tokyo, Yokohama and Kobe (where hundreds of thousands had been killed in firebombing), morale was very very low and they would have probably crumbled before the odd crazy batstard hanging out in the depths of the mountains.

All of which is irrelevant...

[Mr Punch]

Very informative cut and paste sir.

The Target Committee at Los Alamos on May 10?11, 1945, recommended Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama and the arsenal at Kokura as possible targets.

The answer depends on what question you're asking though.

That question was 'Why Hiroshima (as opposed to any other city)?'

If the question was 'Why did the US and UK military choose to drop A-bombs?' (the UK military were as much involved in the initial decision making and some of the strategic planning).

The answers:

1) To justify the millions of dollars research budget to the cash-starved American people
2) To test the effects of a plutonium bomb and a uranium one specifically on a built-up civilian area
3) To warn off the Russians

These hard facts are documented in black and white in letters between Stimson and the gang (inc Churchill etc) on display in the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum. Ironically, the relevant parts are not translated into Japanese, and are generally a chore to read (small handwriting behind glass), and don't seem to be in any books or net articles I've read.

The targets had been planned since two years or so before (the bit that Drake's article mentions is the final decision out of a shortlist of a few more).

They were going to drop the bombs anyway. The emperor, the fight till the end, the saving lives... were all excuses. Again, the dialog is very clear in the letters: let's choose this reason to justify it etc etc.

In light of that fact I think the first two reasons are unjustifiable, and the third pretty dubious too.