Try to never mirror your opponent’s stance.

[JPinAZ]

You’re right on point!!!

I knew that was coming, wondering what took so long…

How about this, I’ll post a clip of a fourth degree black belt trying too my knock my block off by stepping to the outside, I mean really give it his best shot, hooks and all... I hope I don’t have too draw blood for you guys…

Ali Rahim.

haha, you aren't training hard enough if there isn't at least a little blood once in a while Now, if he's stepping to the outside while trying to do those things, it goes against WC principles as I see them and still proves your point. But I look forward to the demo none-the-less, I always enjoy your clips

Back on point. Ok, if you agree with my previous statement, then could you see how it might be possible for the 'mirrored stance attack' to work in some fashion if the space, structure, etc are taken away from you on the entry? (basically, without the side-step, and using forward energy and attacking your CL straight away from the slightly 'superior' position)

Jonathan

[Liddel]

When your mirrored facing with your opponent, do you step inside or outside of his lead foot, when you have a choice that is.

James

Gernerally speaking.....Attacking = inside, Defending = outside. Especially with bigger guys.

What type of action am i given, straight - round - high - low ?
How wide is his stance ?

Theres a lot to consider and while i think about it, i find it funny how it all just naturally happens when facing someone


DREW

[sihing]

Gernerally speaking.....Attacking = inside, Defending = outside. Especially with bigger guys.

What type of action am i given, straight - round - high - low ?
How wide is his stance ?

Theres a lot to consider and while i think about it, i find it funny how it all just naturally happens when facing someone


DREW

Yes there is lots that can happen of course in the midst of it all. It's cool that we can talk generalities with the consideration that things can be adapted and change with different strategies and considerations.

James

[JPinAZ]

Yes there is lots that can happen of course in the midst of it all. It's cool that we can talk generalities with the consideration that things can be adapted and change with different strategies and considerations.

James

James what is your view now vs. the past when you find yourself in a mirrored position against your opponent - how do you enter (footwork, position, etc)?
What do you look for and why/how has it changes?

IMO the foot inside/outside thing when entering in a matched position is also based on initial angle, opponents setup (arms in tight or out wide) and a bunch of other factors. Agree/disagree?

[Ali. R]

Back on point. Ok, if you agree with my previous statement, then could you see how it might be possible for the 'mirrored stance attack' to work in some fashion if the space, structure, etc are taken away from you on the entry? (basically, without the side-step, and using forward energy and attacking your CL straight away from the slightly 'superior' position)

Jonathan

Oh I really can see your point, but if you always face the attack you shouldn’t have that problem… Stay with what comes and follow with what goes, just face it, jam it, wedge it and slice it, but don’t run away when bridge contact is made, because valuable time will be lost …

Ali Rahim.

[YungChun]

Superior position is in relation to your opponents weapons, when you flank or blindside, the idea is to have more weapons available to use then the other guy & be further away from his other side weapon, that's why I use that terminology.

Okay.. That's one definition..

However, TWC Blind Side and the standard flanking done in most systems is not the same thing IMO..

Almost all the moves in WCK have some angle in them.. Most WCK flanking moves IMO use a very small flank.. Sometimes larger sometimes barely noticeable..

Gary's: "Don't let his gun point at you" thing is very different than the TWC Blindside thing and really runs through all of WCK..

Basically for me I'd rather be more in front of my opponent, and make him not face me

Standing right in front of a good fighter without moving requires superior attributes IMO, not the least of which is a strong chin..

Most fighters don't simply stand in front of their opponent.. Some do, but IMO WCK does not teach this idea. Rather IMO the system teaches us to use small flanks that move off the line and then in.. But we are leaving out a lot of specifics..

Once at range you can try to turn your opponent.. But what happens if your opponent is stronger and resists? Then he may turn you or do something else.. So staying in one place and then taking a flank can be done in more ways than just by moving your body.. He may move his own body, you may move your body, you may move his or any combination..

Moving your body on the outside and moving your body on the inside have completely different functions, not the least of which is base destruction, or taking out his base, and or taking a position where his balance is unsure.

than for me to set myself up in a position with the same benefit, do you get my drift. In the stuff I am learning now we do this and more. I like to use the example of a toy spinning top, when you touch that toy while it is spinning, your finger is automatically deflected to the side, away from it's center, this is what I think we are doing when people engage our arms while we are hitting them. Our Center Axis stays where it is, and we make them move to the side.

Try "just" turning your sihings and you know what will happen.. If you think in terms of dealing with a strong opponent who is fast, then staying on his line of fire during the entry phase IMO isn't the best way.. Again Gary's, don't let his gun aim at you makes this clear and is consistent with the concepts in the system..

You’re right on point!!!
How about this, I’ll post a clip of a fourth degree black belt trying too my knock my block off by stepping to the outside

It's not just about some guy stepping to the outside with his foot in the wrong place.. It's just as much about timing, rhythm, feints, fakes, setups, MOVEMENT and so on..

"Just do it" against a good boxer.. Anyone can KO some **** who just walks in with a half assed SDA--that you know is coming--no matter what color belt he has on..

[sihing]

James what is your view now vs. the past when you find yourself in a mirrored position against your opponent - how do you enter (footwork, position, etc)?
What do you look for and why/how has it changes?

IMO the foot inside/outside thing when entering in a matched position is also based on initial angle, opponents setup (arms in tight or out wide) and a bunch of other factors. Agree/disagree?

Will answer when I get back from class

J

[Liddel]

Yes there is lots that can happen of course in the midst of it all. It's cool that we can talk generalities with the consideration that things can be adapted and change with different strategies and considerations.
James

Thinking about knifing a head shot with a Pak and/or Guarn if i want to land a good body shot stepping to the outside is the best option for me cause i can immediatly follow with a turn and the outside hand...

If im looking for the head shot and have the space, the inside is the natural action for me.

My reactions are based on whats good for the moment but also where can i go from here. I love Elbows - love em - and for me having the leg support the action gives it more power / follow through... so its inside all the way.

Its not a good way to move into clinch range for me - with the lead leg outside, i must have the lead leg supporting my dominant hand so it can take more preasure/ weight.

Im 6 foot.... but only 155 pounds


DREW

[Knifefighter]

You’re right on point!!!

I knew that was coming, wondering what took so long…

How about this, I’ll post a clip of a fourth degree black belt trying too my knock my block off by stepping to the outside, I mean really give it his best shot, hooks and all... I hope I don’t have too draw blood for you guys…

Ali Rahim.

Yeah, please do that. At least then there will be one clip of a WC person actaully mixing it up for real.

Of course, I won't hold my breath.

[monji112000]

Try to never mirror your opponent’s stance (he’s in a right forward stance and you’re in a left forward stance, or the other way around), its ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feLvs4-q6tE

In a real fight you don't have time to see what foot he has forward and what foot you have forward. (well maybe sometimes you do but I never do). The way we use our footwork is very different and how we move is also much different. I personally don't care what foot he has forward. Don't get stuck in one position. Don't get stuck in a predefined rule or classical "mess" that people create. I have yet to see a fight were two people square off ... LOL . If you are talking about a sports fight, thats completely different. I still wouldn't care personally. Ofcourse I don't like boxing footwork so... (doesn't mean I don't think its powerful I just prefer WC footwork).

[Ali. R]

It's not just about some guy stepping to the outside with his foot in the wrong place.. It's just as much about timing, rhythm, feints, fakes, setups, MOVEMENT and so on..

"Just do it" against a good boxer.. Anyone can KO some **** who just walks in with a half assed SDA--that you know is coming--no matter what color belt he has on..

So you really think I’ll get a scrub too punch in, this man has been training in Kempo for 16 years, and you’re already saying he’s no good and half ass, and have no timing or a strong sense of fighting, are you saying if he’s not wing chun or boxing he’s no good… If that’s the case, oh my goodness… I believe all arts are good and yes this man can really fight…

Well, if judgment is already in place, there is no reason for me to post the clip; I’ll stop because I’m not use too dealing with this type of energy… I don’t know about others, but I just can’t pass judgment without proof…

And I’m sorry if I offended anyone in witch I’m sure I didn’t… It’s a strong cry from making opinion to a out right judgment… Maybe you’re right and they may all suck compared to your skills, hey but that’s ok too…

Take Care,

Ali Rahim

[YungChun]

So you really think I’ll get a scrub too punch in, this man has been training in Kempo for 16 years, and you’re already saying he’s no good and half ass, and have no timing or a strong sense of fighting, are you saying if he’s not wing chun or boxing he’s no good… If that’s the case, oh my goodness… I believe all arts are good and yes this man can really fight…

Well, if judgment is already in place, there is no reason for me to post the clip; I’ll stop because I’m not use too dealing with this type of energy… I don’t know about others, but I just can’t pass judgment without proof…

And I’m sorry if I offended anyone in witch I’m sure I didn’t… It’s a strong cry from making opinion to a out right judgment… Maybe you’re right and they may all suck compared to your skills, hey but that’s ok too…

Take Care,

Ali Rahim

It's not about sucking..

It's about doing a prearranged move on someone who knows what you want when you want it..

IMO the concept is an artificial construct so by defintion the only way to demo it would be to use someone who actually uses this method as part of their natural game and fighting/sparring that person.. Having a buddy do it, in a demo--no matter how "good" he is, doesn't have the needed elements to measure.

A better way to go is simply use this strategy yourself against someone else who is just fighting--and show that.

[Knifefighter]

Well, if judgment is already in place, there is no reason for me to post the clip; I’ll stop because I’m not use too dealing with this type of energy… I don’t know about others, but I just can’t pass judgment without proof…

As I thought.

[Phil Redmond]

Is he a teacher or a student there?

Hi Dale, I know it's hard for you to conceive that a pro boxer would want to learn WC but that is the case. Prince "learns" from Keith Mazza. He is a "student" at the school. He even calls Keith Sifu and me Sibak. Keith has a rep in the area. He get some of it from training the security for House of Blues. He's goes to LA, Vegas, Chicago, etc., often. That's one of the reasons I moved back east to teach while he's away. When people say that WC doesn't work I have to chuckle. Keith get's these big bouncer types that tell him that he cant' get tme out of the club if they didn't want him to. He simpy shows them that he can using WC principle. But of course these are only big bouncers and not BJJ blakcbelts. I also get to see how WC is effective when guys come in that are wrestlers, boxers, MMA people. and want to fight. So far I've personally had only one incident with a CLF guy that I told to try and hit me as hard, fast, and anyway that he could. Of course he wasn't an invincible, MMA guy but he signed up the next class. I like when people underestimate me because of my size. It's funny to me. My technique isn't perfect though. It's the heart.

[Phil Redmond]

Hey Dale, I forgot to add this:
http://www.seraph.net/
http://www.seraph.net/about_keith_mazza.html
http://www.seraph.net/clients.html
Phil