Try to never mirror your opponent’s stance.

[Knifefighter]

Hi Dale, I know it's hard for you to conceive that a pro boxer would want to learn WC but that is the case.

I have no problem conceiving that a pro boxer might want to add something different into his arsenal.

The reason I was asking is that many people say that boxers, BJJ blackbelts, MT fighters, etc train at their schools, when in actuality they are brought in to teach.

Why haven't you sparred with him if he trains there? Seems like kind of a missed opportunity to me.

[Phil Redmond]

I have no problem conceiving that a pro boxer might want to add something different into his arsenal.

The reason I was asking is that many people say that boxers, BJJ blackbelts, MT fighters, etc train at their schools, when in actuality they are brought in to teach.

Why haven't you sparred with him if he trains there? Seems like kind of a missed opportunity to me.

It's a scheduling (sp)? thing. I have two days off a week. Also, Prince is out of town sometimes so he's not there always. I will start going to Camden where the guys do train though. Also, I've had experience with boxers before. If that's what you're alluding to. When I was kickboxing Yoel Judah was my trainer. His son is Zab Judah. Yoel was the US or American kickboxing. I forget which one. I'll have to check. Plus some undergound bareknuckle fights in Chinatown. Keith has done a few himself. I know Keith from Chinatown so I can vouch for his fights. I'm no bad a$$ but I get my props from people who know me.

[Knifefighter]

Also, I've had experience with boxers before. If that's what you're alluding to. .

I wasn't alluding to anything. I'm just surprised that you haven't jumped at the opportunity to work out with a world class boxer.

[sihing]

James what is your view now vs. the past when you find yourself in a mirrored position against your opponent - how do you enter (footwork, position, etc)?
What do you look for and why/how has it changes?

IMO the foot inside/outside thing when entering in a matched position is also based on initial angle, opponents setup (arms in tight or out wide) and a bunch of other factors. Agree/disagree?

In the past with my TWC training, I preferred the mirrored position over the cross arm. I have fast hands and footwork so I was usually able to get to the blindside and land a few blows before they could re face. Maintaining that position is impossible, if someone wants to turn and face you they will. Plus you have to be ready for the spinning techniques and the fact that the guy might just step into you and take your space.

With the method I train in now, when I end up mirrored position with my lead foot on the outside of his, I'm alot tighter in now than I used to be and am more able to affect their structure and balance due to the different body mechanics that I use now, and when people start to retreat I step forward with the rear foot to get inside there footwork and eat their space to control their centers, rather than maintaining the outside foot position.

Gaining entry is hard to explain on a forum like this, since so many things can happen in the process, too many variables going on at once. Basically for me at my stage of development, I prefer not to use WC structure outside of punching range at all, but more of a natural almost side on stance. WC is range specific when at it's most effective. I have good kicks, and long reach, so I can use jabs, and kicking techniques when out there, but my goal is to get inside their space and use my engine where it works best. If I want to, I can go back to my TWC training and use that stuff as well for outside fighting, which entails using a side neutral stance with Man/wu sau outstretched to face an opponent.

Right now I more interested in learning the inside stuff that this method teaches and developing my engine and hitting to a high level. We will see what my coach wants to do after that. I have lots to learn still, and that is a good feeling

James

[Ali. R]

It's not about sucking..

It's about doing a prearranged move on someone who knows what you want when you want it..

IMO the concept is an artificial construct so by defintion the only way to demo it would be to use someone who actually uses this method as part of their natural game and fighting/sparring that person.. Having a buddy do it, in a demo--no matter how "good" he is, doesn't have the needed elements to measure.
A better way to go is simply use this strategy yourself against someone else who is just fighting--and show that.

Once again judgment… Who said anything about prearranged this, or prearranged that… I said he would try knocking my block off, nothing about prearranged… This is the second time you tried to putting words in my mouth… Why are you doing this? Are you not reading my post?

I see how it is now, when one wants to show ones point of view, the critics wants to see a blood match even when it’s a good sparring match, they want to see someone knocked out… But if the match is one sided, he or she picked a bum, not because one my have true talent… ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don’t… So that eliminates anyone with a little talent too prove his or her point on a clip, when his or her opponent is not knocked out…

Really convenient for those who don’t post clips, Huh…

Ali.

[Ali. R]

As I thought.

What’s the use, it want prove anything…

[YungChun]

Once again judgment…

Get over the judging..

A demo is a demo... Maybe your demos are great.. Most demos are complete BS...

The best way to show what works is to show what works against fully resisting skilled opponents who have no idea what you are trying to demo...

[Liddel]

Once again judgment… Who said anything about prearranged this, or prearranged that…

Perhaps its in relation to the vid you posted

Cause thats what i thought ...no dis.. it is what it is...

DREW

[YungChun]

In the past with my TWC training, I preferred the mirrored position over the cross arm. I have fast hands and footwork so I was usually able to get to the blindside and land a few blows before they could re face. Maintaining that position is impossible, if someone wants to turn and face you they will.

Would have to disagree..

What happend to contact and control? What happend to structural attacks or in the simplest of terms finshing moves? If you can take the line and use the line and flank them then the idea is to use your inside tools to control do damage, steal their base and finish--of which there are many ways to do so..and IMO what the system trains, the 'high power water hose' continuity of attack once we have the line, something Gary certainly teaches..

[sihing]

Okay.. That's one definition..

However, TWC Blind Side and the standard flanking done in most systems is not the same thing IMO..

Almost all the moves in WCK have some angle in them.. Most WCK flanking moves IMO use a very small flank.. Sometimes larger sometimes barely noticeable..

Gary's: "Don't let his gun point at you" thing is very different than the TWC Blindside thing and really runs through all of WCK..

Standing right in front of a good fighter without moving requires superior attributes IMO, not the least of which is a strong chin..

Most fighters don't simply stand in front of their opponent.. Some do, but IMO WCK does not teach this idea. Rather IMO the system teaches us to use small flanks that move off the line and then in.. But we are leaving out a lot of specifics..

Once at range you can try to turn your opponent.. But what happens if your opponent is stronger and resists? Then he may turn you or do something else.. So staying in one place and then taking a flank can be done in more ways than just by moving your body.. He may move his own body, you may move your body, you may move his or any combination..

Moving your body on the outside and moving your body on the inside have completely different functions, not the least of which is base destruction, or taking out his base, and or taking a position where his balance is unsure.

Try "just" turning your sihings and you know what will happen.. If you think in terms of dealing with a strong opponent who is fast, then staying on his line of fire during the entry phase IMO isn't the best way.. Again Gary's, don't let his gun aim at you makes this clear and is consistent with the concepts in the system..


It's not just about some guy stepping to the outside with his foot in the wrong place.. It's just as much about timing, rhythm, feints, fakes, setups, MOVEMENT and so on..

"Just do it" against a good boxer.. Anyone can KO some **** who just walks in with a half assed SDA--that you know is coming--no matter what color belt he has on..

I think we are talking about the samethings here Jim. Of course trying to take the facing away from someone that is experienced in using the method will be harder to do, especially if they have more experience than you. Believe it or not, there are people that are just better than you at what you do, lol. Making them not face you or using blindside concepts is just a helping tool to make things easier for you. In Sifu Lam's system, you have 0 deg fighting (straight in front of the guy), 45, 60, 90, and 120 degree fighting, with the last one meaning you are directly behind the guy (Rear Naked Choke position). According to him, 45 deg is best for hitting.

James

[Ali. R]

Get over the judging..

A demo is a demo... Maybe your demos are great.. Most demos are complete BS...

The best way to show what works is to show what works against fully resisting skilled opponents who have no idea what you are trying to demo...

How do you know if this guy knows what going too happen? I just know they fight that way… Is there something you need to get over, why the hostility? Maybe I could be wrong, I like you and your posting, hope that we be friends …

Ali.

[Phil Redmond]

I wasn't alluding to anything. I'm just surprised that you haven't jumped at the opportunity to work out with a world class boxer.

I hear you and I will for sure.

[Ali. R]

Perhaps its in relation to the vid you posted

Cause thats what i thought ...no dis.. it is what it is...

DREW

I feel you.

[YungChun]

How do you know if this guy knows what going too happen? I just know they fight that way… Is there something you need to get over, why the hostility?

Ali.

The only judging and hostility is what you are thinking you see...

Most folks are not into the demos.. And they will ask for evidence..

As I said maybe your "demos" are great--most are not....

I personally am not into static 'if I do this--then he can't do that' kinds of statics...

Just do your thing and don't worry too much about what people say.. If you are that easily hijacked on the web, then life can be a real biach...

[Ali. R]

The only judging and hostility is what you are thinking you see...

Most folks are not into the demos.. And they will ask for evidence..

As I said maybe your "demos" are great--most are not....

I personally am not into static 'if I do this--then he can't do that' kinds of statics...

Just do your thing and don't worry too much about what people say.. If you are that easily hijacked on the web, then life can be a real biach...

Cool, I’m a little lost but I’m glad everything is ok…

Ali Rahim.