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Thread: Health vs. Martial Arts

  1. #1
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    Health vs. Martial Arts

    Recent comments about conditioning on another thread got me to thinking. Where should our emphasis be in our training? As a typical westerner your well-being is far more threatened by lifestyle issues that can lead to heart disease, stroke and diabetes than you are at threat from physical attack on the streets. Therefore training for health improvement should take priority over training to fight. That is, of course, unless you plan on entering competitions. But even then, conditioning is very important.

    Most of us do WCK as a hobby. Its something we do in our spare time because we enjoy it. But if we aren't training with health-improvement in mind, we are doing ourselves a disservice.

    I can remember seeing a photo of the sign outside of Jim Fung's WCK school in Australia. It said..."fitness with a purpose." It think that is a good way of looking at it. You can use your WCK in two ways to improve your health. You can use it as motivation to do conditioning exercises because you know they will improve your performance. Or you can make your WCK itself your conditioning routine. But this will take some work. If WCK is going to be your primary conditioning, then you may have to really "ramp" up what you are doing. You need to make sure you are including all aspects of "fitness" in your training.....strength, flexibility, and aerobic conditioning. If you find you don't have time for this in your training, then maybe you need to eliminate some of the more "traditional" things you are doing.

    Another aspect of putting "health first" is to avoid things that are going to cause chronic injury and produce problems for you down the road. This includes improper hand conditioning that can lead to arthritic changes, as well as movements and exercises that put stress on already painful joints. Of prime importance here is using good biomechanics. If you include sparring (and you should), you should do it with the proper protective gear and with an partner that isn't going to do permanent damage to you.

    Since few of us are ever going to have to be in "real" fights, but all of us are threatened by the typical "western lifestyle", our martial arts training should be a by-product of our fitness training.....not the other way around.

    I'm as guilty as anybody as neglecting conditioning and a "health first" approach. But I'm working on changing that. I encourage others to do the same.

  2. #2
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    Hello KPM,

    Thank you for you point. I've been reading some of the latest posts and I felt that sometimes we get so obsessed with fighting or competitions we may have lost the greater picture - all the other benefits we get from training martial arts.

    Of course, I do believe that a good martial art is something that must stand the test of real fighing scenarios. Not in a one-on-one competition fighting sense, but life preservation in realistic situations (I see many people getting the two confused.) But how often are we faced with such scenarios? Is conditioning exercises such as kicking the sheen against a tree, which toughen our sheens in real fights but could give us arthritis when we're older, worth it?

    Of course, the benefits of martial arts training to our physical health is obvious.

    But what about our mental health? Are we training in arts of which we are becoming a more well rounded, successful person; or are we turning ourselves into a violent a$$hole which eventually lead to the destruction of our lives?

    How do you define a true martial artist, and a thug who is good only at bashing people?

    Cheers,
    John
    Dr. J Fung
    www.kulowingchun.com

    "打得好就詠春,打得唔好就dum春"

  3. #3
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    Being a fighter and being healthy don't really go hand-in-hand.
    But MA is a long term endevour and as such, health is paramount.
    The fight game is great for when we are young and creating a solid base for our MA skills, eventually though, it catches up with us, its the mileage really, not the year of the car.

    Eventually even the greatest of fighters "settle" down to become MA.

    I do believe though that going through the fighter stage is crucial in one's development.

    Health is crucial in the overall scheme of things.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Recent comments about conditioning on another thread got me to thinking. Where should our emphasis be in our training? As a typical westerner your well-being is far more threatened by lifestyle issues that can lead to heart disease, stroke and diabetes than you are at threat from physical attack on the streets. Therefore training for health improvement should take priority over training to fight. That is, of course, unless you plan on entering competitions. But even then, conditioning is very important.
    I agree with you that our health should be our first priority -- for me, that is a given.

    It is really ironic that many people so concerned with "self-defense", so that they practice a martial art, even a fantasy-based one, for years and perhaps decades, making that sort of investment of time and energy, for the remote possibility that they will ever need to defend themselves, yet many don't do those things (diet, exercise, life style, etc.) that will actually prolong their life and increase the quality of their life.

    Most of us do WCK as a hobby. Its something we do in our spare time because we enjoy it. But if we aren't training with health-improvement in mind, we are doing ourselves a disservice.
    I disagree. I do think that all sensible, rational people take their health seriously and do those things they need to do to keep themselves healthy. And an athletic activity will provide some overall fitness which will contribute to your health. But I think that we should see that as a side benefit, not as its main purpose. If you want to exercise for health, MA is not the best choice. In my view, people do athletic activities because they enjoy them. And some of them, have negative health consequences. We need to just be aware of those going in and weigh the cost/benefit for ourselvses.

    I can remember seeing a photo of the sign outside of Jim Fung's WCK school in Australia. It said..."fitness with a purpose." It think that is a good way of looking at it. You can use your WCK in two ways to improve your health. You can use it as motivation to do conditioning exercises because you know they will improve your performance. Or you can make your WCK itself your conditioning routine. But this will take some work. If WCK is going to be your primary conditioning, then you may have to really "ramp" up what you are doing. You need to make sure you are including all aspects of "fitness" in your training.....strength, flexibility, and aerobic conditioning. If you find you don't have time for this in your training, then maybe you need to eliminate some of the more "traditional" things you are doing.

    Another aspect of putting "health first" is to avoid things that are going to cause chronic injury and produce problems for you down the road. This includes improper hand conditioning that can lead to arthritic changes, as well as movements and exercises that put stress on already painful joints. Of prime importance here is using good biomechanics. If you include sparring (and you should), you should do it with the proper protective gear and with an partner that isn't going to do permanent damage to you.
    I don't think any contact sport or athletic activity is a very good choice if your goal is "health first." If you practice a contact sport or athletic activity for any length of time, you will be injured, you may develop chronic injuries. That is, unfortunately, the price we pay to develop good skills at contact sports and athletic activities. Not that I'm saying we shouldn't try to minimize those and take precautions, just that those are not the sort of activities people should choose if health is their top concern.

    Since few of us are ever going to have to be in "real" fights, but all of us are threatened by the typical "western lifestyle", our martial arts training should be a by-product of our fitness training.....not the other way around.
    I agree with you that there is a hypocricy to put all kinds of effort and time into preparing to "defend yourself" (which for most people will likely never happen) and not do the same thing - put in the time and effort - into just taking care of our general health. But, you can't make a martial art primarily focused on health because the movements, training, etc. that is necessary to develop good fighting skills is notinherently healthy. And if you remove those things to make it healthy, you will lose the functionality of the martial art. In that case, you will have an exerciseprogram that was based-on a martial art. To make that even simpler to understand, consider if you were to design two different programs, one to develop good fighting skills and another to best promote health. There wouldn't be much overlap between the two.

    I'm as guilty as anybody as neglecting conditioning and a "health first" approach. But I'm working on changing that. I encourage others to do the same.
    From my perspective, people should go into any contact sport or atheltic activity, including martial arts, with the desire to actually do that activity and a realistic understanding of the costs/benefits of doing that training and activity. If you take up rugby, it should be to actually play rugby. And you should know what that will entail in terms of the demands on your body/health. The same with MAs. A person should take it up because they want to fight (box, wrestle, grapple), becasue they enjoy fighitng (boxing, wrestling, grappling) and should know the price they will pay to do that. Many peope won't want to pay that price. Just as many people don't want to climb mountains, play rugby, ride bulls, race cars, etc. People don't do those things because they put their health first. They do them because they enjoy them, enjoy the challenges, the competition, etc. The know going in they are not the most healthy of activities.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by imperialtaichi View Post

    But what about our mental health? Are we training in arts of which we are becoming a more well rounded, successful person; or are we turning ourselves into a violent a$$hole which eventually lead to the destruction of our lives?

    How do you define a true martial artist, and a thug who is good only at bashing people?

    Cheers,
    John
    Excellent point John! Your last question may come down to what a person does BESIDES his martial arts!

  6. #6
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    It is really ironic that many people so concerned with "self-defense", so that they practice a martial art, even a fantasy-based one, for years and perhaps decades, making that sort of investment of time and energy, for the remote possibility that they will ever need to defend themselves, yet many don't do those things (diet, exercise, life style, etc.) that will actually prolong their life and increase the quality of their life.

    ---Yep! If someone is truly into "self-defense", they should take to heart the fact that the biggest threat to "self" is lifestyle related disease and not injury at the hands of an attacker.

    I disagree. I do think that all sensible, rational people take their health seriously and do those things they need to do to keep themselves healthy.

    ---Then we must agree to disagree. As I Doctor I have seen plenty of "sensible, rational" people who don't take their health seriously.

    If you want to exercise for health, MA is not the best choice. In my view, people do athletic activities because they enjoy them. And some of them, have negative health consequences. We need to just be aware of those going in and weigh the cost/benefit for ourselvses.

    ---True! I am not an advocate of turning WCK into Tae Bo! If someone was ONLY interested in health improvement, then martial arts is not the best choice. I was taking for granted that people were interested in WCK for its own merits.


    From my perspective, people should go into any contact sport or atheltic activity, including martial arts, with the desire to actually do that activity and a realistic understanding of the costs/benefits of doing that training and activity.

    ---I agree. But it can still be done with a "health first" mindset. The bottom line is that we do these things because we enjoy them. We should also be making sure we are getting the best health benefit from them that we can, and minimizing any bad effects on our health that may be inherent in them. If people are not thinking in these terms, they may be missing out.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    It is really ironic that many people so concerned with "self-defense", so that they practice a martial art, even a fantasy-based one, for years and perhaps decades, making that sort of investment of time and energy, for the remote possibility that they will ever need to defend themselves, yet many don't do those things (diet, exercise, life style, etc.) that will actually prolong their life and increase the quality of their life.

    ---Yep! If someone is truly into "self-defense", they should take to heart the fact that the biggest threat to "self" is lifestyle related disease and not injury at the hands of an attacker.
    Of course.

    I disagree. I do think that all sensible, rational people take their health seriously and do those things they need to do to keep themselves healthy.

    ---Then we must agree to disagree. As I Doctor I have seen plenty of "sensible, rational" people who don't take their health seriously.
    I should havebeen moreclear: I meant "sensible, rational people" when it comes to their health. What I''ve noticed is that people very often are segmented in their lives. So, for example, they may be very disciplined and rational when it comes to finances, but not when it comes to health. Or, they may be very rationalwhen it comes to their occupation but not their personal life.

    If you want to exercise for health, MA is not the best choice. In my view, people do athletic activities because they enjoy them. And some of them, have negative health consequences. We need to just be aware of those going in and weigh the cost/benefit for ourselvses.

    ---True! I am not an advocate of turning WCK into Tae Bo! If someone was ONLY interested in health improvement, then martial arts is not the best choice. I was taking for granted that people were interested in WCK for its own merits.
    Yes, but MAs like so many other contact sports/activites is not inherently good for you in terms of health. It's like talking about making bull-riding a more health-conscious activity.

    From my perspective, people should go into any contact sport or atheltic activity, including martial arts, with the desire to actually do that activity and a realistic understanding of the costs/benefits of doing that training and activity.

    ---I agree. But it can still be done with a "health first" mindset. The bottom line is that we do these things because we enjoy them. We should also be making sure we are getting the best health benefit from them that we can, and minimizing any bad effects on our health that may be inherent in them. If people are not thinking in these terms, they may be missing out.
    Certainly I agree that we should take all precautions to preserve our safety and health, but I think the activity itself is inherently not particularly healthy! Take boxing for example -- getting in a ring where your opponent is trying his best to knock you out and is trying to strike you repeatedly is insane from a health standpoint. From a health standpoint it should be banned. We can do things to minimize our risks, etc. but the activity itself is inherently unhealthy (fitness aside). But like many other "risky" activities, we don't do them for health benefits, we do them for the enjoyment of the activity despite the health risks.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    ---Yep! If someone is truly into "self-defense", they should take to heart the fact that the biggest threat to "self" is lifestyle related disease and not injury at the hands of an attacker.
    The biggest threat to my health is soccer moms on cell phones.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    The biggest threat to my health is soccer moms on cell phones.
    Ah soccer moms:
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  10. #10
    IMHO,

    when the SLT got design the strengthening health components are there. it is still there. The issue is we dont know how to activate it.

  11. #11
    Part of my training is doing push-ups on my knukles. I have been doing this for about 30 years. The other day my doctor said I should stop.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougadam View Post
    Part of my training is doing push-ups on my knukles. I have been doing this for about 30 years. The other day my doctor said I should stop.

    Stop! Why would you stop! When you stop any type of training that helps you to fight, your fighting skills instantly cease to exsit, so don't STOP! Keep it up, regardless of what the doc says, regardless of the fact that you will probably never use your skills for real, regardless if it injures you more, keep it up, because fighting skill is paramount and all important

    James

    (just in case Terence missed this one, I thought I would post for him )

  13. #13
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    Health is a number one priority.

    Obesity in this country leads to high blood pressure, high cholesterol and diabetes. Working out - it doesn't matter what your chosen activity is - just do it for an hour everyday.

    Or else do little things - slap on a pedometer and make sure you've walked 10000 steps a day, do 10 pushups and 10 squats every awake hour, or do your favorite exercise (like chin ups, pull ups, weights, etc.) for a number of reps every hour.

    Read labels, avoid anything with high sodium, high fructose corn syrup and unpronounceables.

    Relieve stress by laughing. Sleep well and good. Don't sweat the little stuff. Don't take your thoughts too seriously.

    Little things will add up.

    Doing this, you can lose a good amount of weight and be in a healthy BMI, but more importantly, have a healthy mind.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dougadam View Post
    Part of my training is doing push-ups on my knukles. I have been doing this for about 30 years. The other day my doctor said I should stop.
    Courtesy.....
    Integrity......
    Perserverance.....
    Self-Control....
    Indomitable Spirit.....

    SIR.....

    Dude, the 80's just called, and they want their training methods back.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    Health is a number one priority.

    Obesity in this country leads to high blood pressure, high cholesterol and diabetes. Working out - it doesn't matter what your chosen activity is - just do it for an hour everyday.

    Or else do little things - slap on a pedometer and make sure you've walked 10000 steps a day, do 10 pushups and 10 squats every awake hour, or do your favorite exercise (like chin ups, pull ups, weights, etc.) for a number of reps every hour.

    Read labels, avoid anything with high sodium, high fructose corn syrup and unpronounceables.

    Relieve stress by laughing. Sleep well and good. Don't sweat the little stuff. Don't take your thoughts too seriously.

    Little things will add up.

    Doing this, you can lose a good amount of weight and be in a healthy BMI, but more importantly, have a healthy mind.
    Train alive, and clean up your diet.

    My .02.

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