What has happened to the 'Rattan Rings'?

[LoneTiger108]

I know I'm new to this forum posting, but after trawling through as many as I can I still haven't seen any mention of the 'Rattan Rings'. Forgive my rashness, but I was under the impression that Yip Man 'loved' this training aid as I once saw a pic of a local store back in the day which had loads of them hanging around!

Does anybody still train with this elusive piece of equipment?

[Mr Punch]

I know I'm new to this forum posting, but after trawling through as many as I can I still haven't seen any mention of the 'Rattan Rings'. Forgive my rashness, but I was under the impression that Yip Man 'loved' this training aid as I once saw a pic of a local store back in the day which had loads of them hanging around!

Does anybody still train with this elusive piece of equipment?

OMG, not this one.

Search again! Put 'rings' or 'rattan rings' in the search box... good luck!

[Vajramusti]

Some Yien Kay Shan folks use them. Check Rene's site. Rings are not big in Ip Man WC.

Joy chaudhuri

[donbdc]

We use them in CRCA Wing Chun. Its a good tool for developing whirlpool energy and correct allignment w/ complex blocks and attacks. I will try and get you more info if you are interested.
Don

[woodendumby]

I bought a rattan ring just bfore I started at my Kwoon...eager to have something to mess around with. but, my sifu promptly told me that it was a bad idea ... kind of a fad that died out. He said it was bad for form...but then I guess everyone has their own opinion.

[donbdc]

At least try doing Gahn/Jom's w/ It and some foot work. I think you'll find it helpful

[LoneTiger108]

OMG, not this one.

Search again! Put 'rings' or 'rattan rings' in the search box... good luck!

I did Mr Punch, and wasn't impressed too much with the little I read to be honest! You too seem to have an allergy to the rings lol! Intigued as I am to see who has trained with them, it was pretty obvious that the majority feel they are useless and have no purpose in Wing Chun.

It is very refreshing to note the positive responses here though, as I too am an advocate of Ring training. AGAIN, I put my neck on the line and say that I am an equipment fanatic! I have experimented like the magazine copy that I saw in one of the threads, and I believe that, with the little knowledge I have, I will continue to be entertained by the Rings for years to come.

A great therapeutic tool that was only introduced to me later on due to us not being able to purchase anything suitable. In the end, we had to manufacture our own due to the nature of our interactive sessions...

[Mr Punch]

You should read again sir!

Despite my line(s!) never having used them I've always defended their use against umpteen people who blanket state that they're no use to the energies in wing chun, when they themselves have no experience!

[LoneTiger108]

I did Mr Punch, and wasn't impressed too much with the little I read to be honest! You too seem to have an allergy to the rings lol!

I'm happy and relieved to apologize for my assumptions Mr Punch, and I look forward to re-reading the posts mentioned. The Rings are worthy of such defence.

[donbdc]

From what I read on the old thread about rings, it seems most of the people who are so anti-ring training must be thinking we use the ring with both hands inserted through the same side of the ring, when actually that is not how it's used at all. And as far as it causing your arms to split apart, remember that you are only touching the ring in two places at any given time - in that respect it's no different than hitting the wooden dummy with two arms at once. And it takes no outward pressure to keep the ring from falling anyway - your correct position and gravity keeps it from falling off. In any case, even if it did take outward pressure, why would that somehow detract from your sticky hands or other structure? Does the fact that you open your car door every day affect your ability to keep your elbow in when you stick hands? Does spreading your curtains open in the morning cause your hands to spread open at the wrong time in combat?

[southernkf]

I am not familiar with any "offical" rattan rings being taught by any line from Yip Man. By this I mean it doesn't seem to stem from his teachings as a core or even secondary training method. Some people in his line no doubt picked up and perhaps advocate the tool. But it seems to be personal preference. This doesn't imply he NEVER taught it to anyone or that he had an opinion one way or the other. Just. as noted above, it doesn't seem to be a common, or even vaguely used in Yip Man wing chun.

My thought was the reason we don't see it, assuming Yip Man was aware of it, is because it is not fundamental to wing chun. I would make the assumption that if it really developed skills, Yip Man and his students would have advocated its use. Perhaps it is a so called close door thing and all the great masters are hiding in the closet while doing the rings. LOL.

My opinion is there may be some good that can come from the tool. But I think there is equally as much bad, if not more. There are certain moves that dictate the hands be so far apart, but many others that don't. Some people do the chain punch, which I think is partially wrong because it causes a huge circle to have to be performed, depending on how you do the ring. Many other techniques also follow the same pattern and wouldn't be the best approach. Part of the problem is the outward pressure that has to be applied. Granted this isn't always done this way depending on the technique performed with it. I am sure many advocates find wonderful uses for the ring. I am not suggesting it isn't usefully for some, just that it doesn't seem to work for many others. I would prefer to spend my time with another practitioner if available, or work on many other drills and tools like the dummy or pole exercises along with certain other exercises.

Perhaps a good question is, did anyone learn the Ring from Yip Man? Does anyone have the ring as part of their training. Those outside of Yip Man, how do you utilize the ring? Is it a free form drill or more of a set of stuff you practice?

[donbdc]

Sometimes other practitioners are not there when you want to train, and most people I know don't invest in a wooden man in the first months of training. A ring is a small investment and can help develop proper mechanics. especially, preventing flying elbows and w/ foot work can provide a tool for hand and feet coordination which is essential for power.

[southernkf]

Hi,

How does the ring prevent flying elbows? Do you using it at the elbows? I have seen a few different people demo the ring here and there and they had it lower on the forearms. My thought is if it is pressing in on your arms, then you will have a tendency to press outwards which would cause the elbows to fly out when the ring is not there. But that is probably based on my naive understanding.

So how do you train with it to improve? How does it prvent the elbow from flying out? Any thoughts why it isn't more common if it was really a good training tool?

[Lugoman]

Someone on another forum told me that weight training, particularly kettlebells would ruin my WC. They also said I'd go blind too.

I don't understand the use of the ring, so I let it go in another thread here.
I don't know why some people seem to believe that if you do anything outside of what they're doing your WC is going to suffer.

I've pretty much given up on getting straight answers on the web in regard to this style. There just doesn't seem to be any middle ground where anyone can meet on most topics related to WC.

[donbdc]

Well I guess I am a radical as I use them both and love them. But as far as the ring preventing flying elbows and fwd pressure, don't you do that when you are on the dummy? If you are doing loy and noy kwan sao drills arent you applying similiar pressure?
As for preventing flying elbows, I believe it helps to develop muscle memory and proper bone joint allignment for the new student. A lot of training in the beggining is like learning to pat your head and rub your tummy. Complex hand movements combined w/ proper fot work is hard. If you have been doing it for a while, it is easily taken for granted. Any tool to help speed up that awkward process and allow the student to feel and thereby understand yin and yang energy coupled w/ timing and foot work is priceless.
Kettlebells anyone?