Lama Sup Ji

[Green Cloud]

Oh by the way Dave You know I love you, hugs and kisses

[lkfmdc]

It certainly isn't my fault that you never studied Chinese and don't understand these differences

I believe you and Mike used to have a copy of this book in the office, Janey Chen's "practical Chinese-English"

[lkfmdc]

maybe now you might figure out what is going on

[Lama Pai Sifu]

What do you mean, Luk whan Ji and Chin whan Ji sound the same??

NO. There are several ways to say GREEN is what he is pointing out. One of the ways is Ching. Ching is also the word for clear. They are different characters but sound similiar. That is how are mistake was supported. The characters are very very similiar and they sound alike. We were the one's who said "Luhk." Laurette and David are the one's that first interpreted it. I think you are just arguing it because you named your school after a temple that doesn't exist. Honest mistake. We all thought that until 2004. Incidently, it was Steven Inocenzzi who brought this up to us about 15 years ago, but we didn't listen. Pfffft, what did he know?


Allow me to take this opportunity to finally set the record straight regarding the temple where our beloved and often cranky Sifu, Chan Tai-San was raised and learned a great deal of his Kung-Fu, especially since I am the one who went back to Toi San where it is located, twice.

I met with several people who actually grew up in, an around the temple.

The temple is very well known in Toi San.

I received a complete lineage of who trained at the temple; this includes a list of our Si-Gung's Sifus. Filed in all the holes. Along with all of Jyu Chuyhn's students/disciples as well.

I have also spent a total of three days on two separate trips with our Si-Gung's son, Jyu Maan Yeung.

I have several pages of writing from him and three of Sifu's classmates sons.

Here is a PIC of Jyu Chuyhn's last student, I don't have his name handy - Me, Jyu Chuyhn's son, Jyu Maan Yeung and Lei Fei San's (Chan Tai-San's best friend and classmate) son. All these men have been to the temple while it was in operation. Jyu Maan Yeung is 70 at the time of this photo in 12.2005

4 months later with his senior student. PIC

I have at least 10 documents where Sifu writes about the temple. He clearly uses the "CLEAR" character and not the "GREEN" character.

Here is one for them.

CLEAR CLOUD TEMPLE

This is undeniable proof that there was no Green Cloud Temple, there was no Green Cloud Choy Lay Fut. This was an honest error.

If there are any people on the web that have used this name, it came directly from the writings or websites of David Ross, Steven Ventura or myself. Being we are the only one's that have ever published info on Lama within our group. We wrote this name in an article in 1991 and I believe David Ross may have mentioned it in an article from 1988 (both in IKF magazine). Many people have just taken our word, since our teacher was considered the foremost authority in this country on the style. It wasn't his mistake, it was ours.

End of Temple Discussion. Case closed. No Green Cloud, only Clear Cloud.

I hope this conversation can now be finally put to rest.

[hskwarrior]

清 qīng clear; distinct; complete; pure


青= green


清 云 is this the same one written.......it means clear cloud.

[hskwarrior]

someone with the name rising crane was viewing this thread.....wonder why he didn't jump on in and clear things up?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I know David, he's an excellent practitioner and seems to be a great guy. He visited my a few years ago on a trip to NY. He didn't jump in because it doesn't directly impact him, his school or his lineage. Like I said, lots of people reference materials that WE had already put out there. I'll send him an email...

[lkfmdc]

清 qīng clear; distinct; complete; pure


青= green


清 云 is this the same one written.......it means clear cloud.

EXACTLY!

you can see the characters are very similar (one has the three stroke water radical the other doesn't)

they sound the same in Cantonese

it was a mistake, mistakes happen, some people move on, others hold onto and can't admit mistakes apparently

Hoonestly, what I find really annoying is that in all the years that we were with CTS, Gus never showed any interest in learning any Chinese at all...

[hskwarrior]

well, a mistake is a mistake........

but i think we all would agree, a pic of the temple with its sign above would have taken care of all this.

but sifu gus is already established his school. kinda hard to up and change it suddenly. The good thing about this could be sifu gus has created a branch within your school that HE calls Green Cloud. It doesn't matter whats behind the name. its whats being done with the name.

At the moment, sifu gus and 'Green Cloud" are synonymous...........

[lkfmdc]

At the moment, sifu gus and 'Green Cloud" are synonymous...........

that's fine

he can even call it "Luhk Waan Kung Fu" (as he already has in the past)

but when we discuss CTS, his sifu, his lineage etc we should from now on put up the correct version

as for David in UK and his Hap Ga, as I ALREADY SAID they are 100% real Hap Ga, in fact Sifu Chan studied with his Si Gung....

It isn't a huge issue, there was NOTHIGN in English until I published in the 1990's and most people followed us, took us at our word, which was fine, because this was a mistake and mistakes happen

[hskwarrior]

the most important thing is that there are only a hand full of sifu Chan's students left doing anything.

you guys are training brothers, regardles of who's first, longest, shortest, fattest, skinniest.........

if you sifu were alive would he want to see all the drama going on.

my sifu is still alive and i know he hates drama in his school.

so, there's nothing wrong with green cloud, sifu gus can now make his legacy. but if Clear cloud is the correct name, then make it so for all future gens to know.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

And no one has a problem with that, Frank.

But when you misrepresent that, there is a problem.

Gus states that the green cloud temple goes back hundreds of years in china.

Okay, replace green with clear, no problem.

But then his site says that he is the head of Green Cloud in the US.

1. there is no temple of that name.
2. he is not head of or represents any temple associated with our teacher.
3. he is not even the head or senior student of CTS's Choy Lay Fut in the US.

I was givin the responsibiliy, in writing of passing on CTS's CLF style and I am named as the head. I don't ever even talk about that, but when someone ELSE wants to claim what isn't true, then there is a problem.

If I understand what you are suggesting...you are saying that Gus should make it more clear that he calls his school Green Cloud and that there is not temple with that name. Furthermore, he should state that Green Cloud is his branch and his branch only and NOT that people are doing Green Cloud CLF all over the world (because they are not).

I don't think that anyone one would have a challenge with that at all. But currently, he is promoting several untruths on his website. They should be corrected.

At least everyone now knows that there is NO GREEN CLOUD TEMPLE associated with CHAN TAI-SAN.

[hskwarrior]

see a mistake is a mistake though.

its kinda hard to go back and erase what been done.

and to your guy's admission, dave ross made the mistake.....NOT sifu gus. to be fair, YOU guys fed him that information, right? so go light on him.

and to be honest, as far i know, there's a hand full of students, but you never hear who is the chose one for CTS. if you are......step up to the plate.

if its left open, then you all should honor CTS and make something of his gung fu.

if the words are really clear cloud, then historically fix the problem. but now sifu gus has an interesting story behind his schools name.

i'm sure if he changed it right now to clear cloud and made and explanation on his site, it would ease people into knowing why there's confusion.

but if sifu gus wanted to, using the GREEN CLOUD name, he can do what he wants in his school. It's clear you guys are all separate in doing your own thing.

but i would agree, historically, make sure the change is in place about the name.

[lkfmdc]

and to your guy's admission, dave ross made the mistake.....NOT sifu gus. to be fair, YOU guys fed him that information, right? so go light on him.

Frank, with respect, I think you are missing the point

No one is "going hard" on Gus for calling it Green Cloud, but for crying out loud, don't argue with us when we explain why it isn't really "green"

Since Gus never wanted to be bothered with learning any Chinese, as opposed to me who went to Graduate school to learn it, please don't try and argue with me about Chinese characters!

In all honesty, the real issues we have had with Gus are misrepresentations that have been perpetuated.

I've seen you go NUTS when a guy who is clearly a troll insults your sifu and lineage. Here we have a guy who is actually part of the tradition spreading mis-information

I have met students of Gus who have told me with a straight face that Gus was raised by CTS. Not only is Gus NOT an orphan, he met CTS when he was already in his 30's!

Pretty much all of CTS hing-dai get along just fine, and you don't see us pulling out the letters and red baai si books and laying the smack down because there is very little issue really inside the pai.....

[Green Cloud]

I am currently working on updating my site as far as comming to terms about the name it realy doesn't matter and I am the head of Green Cloud since that is what my school is called.

Its my logo period. By the way last time I checked You were calling it the Green Cloud Monestary on your web site, not to say that you may not have changed it recently.

As far as research is concerned until I see a picture of the monestery or visit in person witch is something that I will do I will not be conviced.

Not to say that I am not going along with what you are saying but that I am just not %100 pecent convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Anyway Dave said he had a picture that's all I was getting at.