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Thread: Iron Fist

  1. #61
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    echoes of #oscarssowhite?

    There's been plenty of backlash for sure. Here's just a taste for posterity's sake.

    I don't really know the character very well so the white vs. Asian doesn't bum me out as much as the lack of martial arts background.

    Marvel Commits To White Iron Fist Despite Racist Roots
    We could've had it all, Marvel.
    BY DONNA ****ENS @MILDLYAMUSED | THURSDAY, FEB 25, 2016 5:09 PM

    Here we go again. Entertainment Weekly just announced that Marvel and Netflix have found their Iron Fist. Finn Jones (Game of Thrones) has been tapped to play Danny Rand in the upcoming series Iron Fist. I enjoy Jones’ take on Loras Tyrell but I’d be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by this choice.
    Disappointed, but not surprised.
    Marvel has made a stab at diversified casting when it comes to black characters — including changing Nick Fury (Samuel L. Jackson), Heimdall (Idris Elba), and Baron Mordo’s (Chiwetel Ejiofor) race, adding Falcon to the line-up and the introduction of Luke Cage. They’ve even made attempts to include Latino culture with Luis (Michael Peña) and Claire Temple (Rosario Dawson). But for some reason, they keep fumbling at the one-yard line when it comes to representation of Asian cultures. We have Skye (Chloe Bennet), Agent May (Ming-Na Wen) and Madame Gao (Wai Ching Ho). But there have been several opportunities for Marvel to not only cast an Asian actor in a major role but to do so in a way that begins to repair some of the racist damage caused by the source materials 1960s and 1970s Yellow Peril.
    I’ve talked at length before about how casting Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One in Doctor Strange was the easy way out for Marvel. Casting an Asian actor in that role would mean having to find a way write the character without crossing over into a racist stereotype. Now the same thing has been done again by casting a white actor as Iron Fist. Yes, Iron Fist has always been a white character. But looking back at both his origin and history through a modern lens, Danny Rand becomes a poster child for appropriation.
    Created in 1974, Iron Fist first appeared in MARVEL PREMIERE #15. Co-creator Roy Thomas even attributed watching Bruce Lee movies as inspiration for Iron Fist’s inception. So straight out of the gate, you have a white character standing on the shoulders of a person of color. Then in his origin story, Danny Rand is the son of a wealthy American named Wendell Rand and Rand’s socialite wife, Heather Duncan. During a vacation when Danny is a child, shenanigans happened, and Danny was left orphaned in the Himalayas. The mystical K’un-Lun found and trained Danny, eventually bestowing upon him the title of the Iron Fist. Danny was 66th Iron Fist…and the first white person to claim the title. To recap: an ostensibly Asian — and alien — culture gifts a white boy with power. That’s the Mighty Whitey trope all over. Other than the standard operating procedure of defaulting stories to being about straight white men, there is no reason for Danny Rand to be white. But lots of reasons for him NOT to be.
    You could dedicate whole articles to dissecting Marvel’s Asian-Land amalgamation from the mid-20th century, and the racism underlying many Asian comic book characters and settings. The source material definitely puts Marvel in a tough spot. Cast an Asian actor and risk being seen as racist…or cast a white actor and risk being seen as racist.
    One would hope Marvel would err on the side of progress and find a way to simply write Asian characters that aren’t inherently racist. This was the idea behind #AsianAmericanIronFist movement on social media. Yes, Danny Rand has always been a white character, so casting Finn Jones’ isn’t whitewashing. But it IS a missed opportunity. I’ve been helping beat the drum to cast an Asian character as Iron Fist, not because the character is a martial artist, but because the character is steeped in Asian culture.
    From Daredevil to Shatterstar, Marvel has a history of white martial artists. Which is fine. But imagine how much more layered Iron Fist would be had, say, Alex Wong, had been cast. He could still be the son of a wealthy American. Exploring the dissonance between a 2nd or 3rd generation Asian-American and their cultural ancestry would’ve added both a narrative angle and finally given Marvel an Asian superhero. And it’s not like Disney hasn’t dabbled in this plot structure before. Just take American Dragon: Jake Long and turn it into an adult show. Boom! Iron Fist. But no. Instead, we get another white guy.
    Boring.


    DONNA ****ENS
    Mom. Wife. Geek. Gamer. Feminist. Writer. Sarcastic. Succinct. Donna has been writing snark for the Internet in one form or another for almost a decade. She has a lot of opinions, mostly on science-fiction, fantasy, feminism, and Sailor Moon. Follow her on Twitter (@MildlyAmused) for more of all these things.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    There's been plenty of backlash for sure. Here's just a taste for posterity's sake.

    I don't really know the character very well so the white vs. Asian doesn't bum me out as much as the lack of martial arts background.
    The #oscarssowhite thing was only about the lack of blacks' opportunities in Hollywood, and was not extended to include other nonwhite groups like Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, or anyone else. In Chris Rock's mind, and many others', there is only black and white, and only blacks are 'persons of color'. To those who boycotted the oscars, 'diversity' in Hollywood pretty much means black and white. The only person on the oscars show who included other groups in the need to diversify was one of the people Chris Rock was interviewing in Compton.

    Now that I'm getting off of my soapbox, I don't see an Iron Fist movie or series as being anything special or worth looking forward to. It's just same old/same old. Plus, IMO there is a glut of superhero movies and the genre has been getting old for awhile now..
    Last edited by Jimbo; 02-29-2016 at 03:15 PM.

  3. #63
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    Nerds vs . . . I Dunno.

    1. Daniel Rand is the SECOND white Iron First. He's the first to not see his death coming and be so bummed out he goes on a decades long heroin binge to dull his chi.

    2. They weren't on vacation, the elder Rand had his cheese slide off the cracker in a hunt for the City of Heaven. He and the mom died on the mountain before reaching the city.

    3. Daniel was trained, but not expected to become the Immortal Weapon. The trainer's son was the presumed heir.

    4. Why didn't the author get mad that only one woman was ever Iron Fist?

    -----

    From the tone of the article, the author had a mission to be offended. If, as they said, the Ancient One was asian or black, there would have been 'Song of the South' parallels drawn.

    I'm not super happy, because there are other actors with MA background, who could do a passable acting job. But I'm not the author of the whinepiece, so I'm not going to say 'It Stinks' til I've smelled it.
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    "Who dies first," he mumbled through smashed and bloody lips.

  4. #64
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    MA-wise, as long as an actor can be made to appear passable or convincing enough onscreen, that's considered good enough. His real-life expertise, or lack of it, matters little if he can meet those criteria. He'll likely be doubled for the more difficult scenes.

    Oddly enough, there are times when a non-MAist actor can look better in onscreen fight scenes than some highly-trained MAists. Sometimes even great REAL MAists or fighters can look so-so screen fighting. Examples include Joe Lewis, Don Wilson, Bill Wallace, Randy Couture, Dolph Lundgren, etc.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 02-29-2016 at 07:46 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    The #oscarssowhite thing was only about the lack of blacks' opportunities in Hollywood, and was not extended to include other nonwhite groups like Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, or anyone else. In Chris Rock's mind, and many others', there is only black and white, and only blacks are 'persons of color'. To those who boycotted the oscars, 'diversity' in Hollywood pretty much means black and white. The only person on the oscars show who included other groups in the need to diversify was one of the people Chris Rock was interviewing in Compton.

    Now that I'm getting off of my soapbox, I don't see an Iron Fist movie or series as being anything special or worth looking forward to. It's just same old/same old. Plus, IMO there is a glut of superhero movies and the genre has been getting old for awhile now..
    Jimbo has ironfisted the correct.
    There IS diversity in Hollywood and hollywood is not racist, It is ELITIST.
    You have to belong to the niche group, if not you are simply not "in".
    And no one likes or gives a rat's ass about the Smith's, they are tools.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash View Post
    1. Daniel Rand is the SECOND white Iron First. He's the first to not see his death coming and be so bummed out he goes on a decades long heroin binge to dull his chi.

    2. They weren't on vacation, the elder Rand had his cheese slide off the cracker in a hunt for the City of Heaven. He and the mom died on the mountain before reaching the city.

    3. Daniel was trained, but not expected to become the Immortal Weapon. The trainer's son was the presumed heir.

    4. Why didn't the author get mad that only one woman was ever Iron Fist?

    -----

    From the tone of the article, the author had a mission to be offended. If, as they said, the Ancient One was asian or black, there would have been 'Song of the South' parallels drawn.

    I'm not super happy, because there are other actors with MA background, who could do a passable acting job. But I'm not the author of the whinepiece, so I'm not going to say 'It Stinks' til I've smelled it.
    I think you may a bit all over the place there...
    According to the Immortal Iron Fist timeline/mythos, It was not daniel that went on a decades long heroin binge to mask his chi from the demon that kills Ironfists, it was Orson Randall.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I think you may a bit all over the place there...
    According to the Immortal Iron Fist timeline/mythos, It was not daniel that went on a decades long heroin binge to mask his chi from the demon that kills Ironfists, it was Orson Randall.
    Truthiness. I may have been spaced out when I typed that.
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    "Who dies first," he mumbled through smashed and bloody lips.

  8. #68

    #oscarssowhite ??? ???? ???????

    Greetings

    What many of you have been viewing could have been an event that was carefully controlled from both sides. Since when is Chris Rock any more than the tool that he has always been?

    The problem arose a few years ago when the the criteria to award oscars included consideration of the nominees body of work. Motivating factors were Jennifer Hudson's oscar win for Dreamgirls and Gabourey Sidibe's Best actress nomination for Precious: both had a paucity of acting experience. So, the body of work criteria was economical, political, and racist. No one said anything against it, back then. Now, it seems the criteria has again been expanded to look at a person's body of work just to be considered for a NOMINATION. That affects everyone. And EVERYONE should have stepped forward about this matter from its beginning a few years ago.


    mickey

  9. #69
    Sucks and what do you do?

    Always going to be someone that think I or he or she did a better job.

    So this is becomes a nightmare. Everybody starts to stick up for their race. That's unfair. Next color yells back. This is unfair.

    So we give out more Oscars. One for white? One for Black ? One for Asian ? Then the Asians my go ell he is freaking Japanese. Im not ! How come Cambodians don't have a freaking Cambodian on the panel ? So now we expand it further. Add some Cambodian Oscars for Christ sakes. You want a riot ? Then, The white or black or anyone else can use the same card. Well holycrap dude. Im Scottish. Where is my freaking award ? It is no longer about who is the best.

    So now we should have Whites only Oscars. No Blacks allowed. And Blacks only Oscars and No Whites allowed. That's the only solution that will work. I don't see any possible problems with that situation. Well I do actually.

    So hopefully they work on doing better but in the end, someone is always going to get f---ked.

    I got a great idea. Don't allow anyone your color to decide on your color for best actor. No white judges for whites and same for everyone else. But someone will always say, that's not fair. What do they know about white people ? Maybe nothing but this is about best actor not color.

    No matter what you do someone will always call foul.

  10. #70
    Everything is stacked. We don't stand a chance !

  11. #71
    Greetings,

    Much, much, laughter, Billy.

    The Oscars recognized ability and talent in front of the camera and behind it. It should simply go back to that. The "body of work" stuff should be discarded. And if your best ability is outshone by someone in their first movie role, that is how things happen at times. Try harder next year. Grow and develop in your craft

    mickey

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    Much, much, laughter, Billy.

    The Oscars recognized ability and talent in front of the camera and behind it. It should simply go back to that. The "body of work" stuff should be discarded. And if your best ability is outshone by someone in their first movie role, that is how things happen at times. Try harder next year. Grow and develop in your craft

    mickey
    If only.....

  13. #73
    Yes, if only.



    mickey

  14. #74
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    TBH, no awards should be awarded just to ensure equality of representation due to skin color. And if you're not nominated, don't cry racism and take your ball and go home to your multi-million-dollar mansion. Be thankful you can make a living doing what you (supposedly) love doing; making more on one movie (even if it's a piece of crap) than most people who bust their butts every day make in a lifetime. The Smiths have nothing to ***** about. I'm betting their son has NEVER had to audition for anything IN HIS LIFE like every other aspiring actor is required to.

    But to keep this thread from drifting completely OT: IRON FIST IRON FIST IRON FIST....

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    TBH, no awards should be awarded just to ensure equality of representation due to skin color. .
    Greetings Jimbo,

    I agree with you on this.

    Again, those pitchin' a beyotch now should have been doing so back in 2010 when Gabourey Sidibe got screwed. The Smiths nor anyone else was speaking up about it. Even though I do not watch TV, I usually see the oscars at my sisters house. I watch the dance and music performances. I have not watched the oscars since then. I saw what the ramifications of including the person's body of work in the mix achieved in 2010 and how it would affect nominations it the future; basically, the fix was in. Black, Asian and Latino hollywood were unconscious to the ramifications of the new selection criteria and so was everyone else.

    There are quite a few who can see beyond the childish rants of hollywood players.

    And YES: IRONFIST IRONFIST IRONFIST!!!


    mickey
    Last edited by mickey; 03-01-2016 at 01:32 PM.

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