Skill or Strength ??

[bodhitree]

Mr. Punch,

You are one funny dude!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Good point, my mistake. I knew there was another word for it. My point still stands, I reckon.

You reckon correctly.

[Mr Punch]

Mr. Punch,

You are one funny dude!!!

And a (barely flawed) genius. Your point?

[bodhitree]

And a (barely flawed) genius. Your point?

my point is you are a funny dude, i thought i made that quite clear!

[SouthernTiger]

So, you have no experience about the subject you are talking about, about the discipline you are criticizing...? But you do have anecdotal evidence from 'people'...? Would you care to give us a few details precisely how and what parts of their bodies?Not Doctor Clumsy then? And what's your sifu's name, Captain Hyperbole? Where can we buy the comic?

Dynamic tension sets like any kind of anaerobic isometrics, have their place in a good strength regime, as any good weights-based strength trainer will agree. Horse stance is another such isometric exercise. However, without some kind of supplementary and integrated strength programme the benefits will plateau very quickly.

Push-ups are good again as part of a sensible programme, but if tht is the only resistance exercise you do they are specifying muscle groups more than basic weight exercises like say, squats or deadlifts, and again without increasing the resistance by finding ever more extreme angles (hint: there is nowhere to go after a handstand push-up!) or increasing the weight (eg. push-ups with weights on your back - hence, er, weight training) you're not doing anything other than maintaining your fitness levels.

Your choice of words is 'have kept me strong' - I suspect if you are as strong as 'people' say, you were strong to begin with (so there is a substantial genetic factor or nurture: you were fighting to stay alive within the pack of wolves who raised you...?!) or the 'people' are puny.

Sure. People whose form is bad or who don't stretch out will screw up more than just their kung fu. But people who rely completely on archaic solely skill training methods and ignore the strength aspects will get screwed up by those who train in an integrated whole body manner. In Japan it's shin, gi, tai (mind/spirit, technique, body) and I'm sure the Chinese have an equivalent... as Laukarbo has pointed out they have some more prosaic versions.

Good luck to you if that's the way you train, or sine you seem to indicate you can handle yourself, good luck to your students if that's the way you teach.

Finally, the fact that you call yourself Gino sifu and your sig includes a silly face , quite apart from your tone suggests that you didn't come here to discuss the question you posited, merely to hold court and tell people the 'right' answer. Stick around, you might learn something, 'sifu'.

Hmm...Mr. Punch is it possible for you to state your opinion without being condescending? It seems not... *rolleyes*

I think the whole purpose of ginosifu asking this question is merely a theoretical one. That is to say, which is more important in the big picture: skill or strength? Of course, this is purely hypothetical because no sane person would train one exclusively (unless you are Mr. Punch, who only needs to train strength because he seems to have perfected technique already...)

To this, I think it would be hard for anyone to call themselves Martial Artists and say that strength takes presedence (sp?) over skill. If so, why even train martial arts? Trully, would it not just be better to be a powerlifter or strongman? If we had to choose one: as a martial artist, it should be skill; as a normal person, it should be strength.

Surely we could agree that training martial arts is about training the science of combat and how to use an opponent's force against himself. Otherwise, it is always the bigger, stronger, and faster man that wins.

Also, if we do want to talk about "weight training" and any inhibitory effects on martial arts, we would need to define lifts and methods more thoroughly to avoid blanket statements like, "weight training is bad."

For example, I am of the opinion that bench press is worthless for fighting arts. Deadlifts, squats, snatches, and other "without support" total body lifts are quite useful and I bleieve they should be in every martial artists training regimen.

Now, I will await Mr. Punch's cunningly condescending and pompous retort...

-Blake

[ginosifu]

Thank You Southern Tiger

Ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

For example, I am of the opinion that bench press is worthless for fighting arts. Deadlifts, squats, snatches, and other "without support" total body lifts are quite useful and I bleieve they should be in every martial artists training regimen.

Worthless?
You sure your name isn't Terrence ?
Blanket statements, tsk, tsk.

[MasterKiller]

Surely we could agree that training martial arts is about training the science of combat and how to use an opponent's force against himself. Otherwise, it is always the bigger, stronger, and faster man that wins.

When doesn't the bigger, stronger, faster win?

Where are all the little, weak, slow world champions?

[Lucas]

To choose one or the other would be silly of course.

However, in light of discussion.

I am of the mind to side with skill as well. Skill in itselft (proper structure/alignment, form of movement) can generate power and speed (speed of thought/reaction/synapses).

Strength is a definate must in real life.

Another boon for skill training, if we were to choose just one, is that it in itself will still provide you with a portion of strength training as well, to a degree.

[Lucas]

When doesn't the bigger, stronger, faster win?

Where are all the little, weak, slow world champions?

on the flip side. know any world champs with no skills?

takes both, so this is basically a redundant thread.

[sanjuro_ronin]

on the flip side. know any world champs with no skills?

takes both, so this is basically a redundant thread.

I do know some champs that DON'T have better skills than others that are NOT champs.
Actually I am sure a few here would be able to think of a few in any sport combat art.

[Shaolindynasty]

first balls second power and third kung fu

The third can't exsist without the first 2. What good is technique without the courage and power to make it work.

If you are low on time alternate the workouts.

[MasterKiller]

on the flip side. know any world champs with no skills?

takes both, so this is basically a redundant thread.

Tim Sylvia was world champ. He is less skilled than many, many others, including Arlovski whom he beat twice using his...um...size to his advantage.

[SouthernTiger]

When doesn't the bigger, stronger, faster win?

Where are all the little, weak, slow world champions?

Are you serious??? You think that if someone is bigger than another they will win nomatter what?

Lets take UFC as an example, as I am sure you are one of the millions completely infatuated with it... Who won the first couple UFC's? Was it that fat sumo guy? No it was 160 lb Royce Gracie. Little Royce used his skill on the ground to win, not his strength.

There are many others, but because so many (or all) modern competitions are based on weight, it is difficult to see the disparity in skill and strength.

Besides, the point was more skill, less strength. Not more skill, "little, weak, slow". Nice catch on that...

-Blake

[MasterKiller]

Lets take UFC as an example, as I am sure you are one of the millions completely infatuated with it... Who won the first couple UFC's? Was it that fat sumo guy? No it was 160 lb Royce Gracie. Little Royce used his skill on the ground to win, not his strength.

And I wonder why Royce was recently caught juicing...? Do steroids make your triangle choke more technical?