Zhang Zhuang

[SPJ]

Cool.

I know it is ironic.

When your posture is right. Such as 2 feet apart about shoulder width. The whole body is relaxed. All you feel is the gravity pull from your feet or rooting.

Wu Ji Zhuang in Tai Ji Quan.

I placed my both hands near Dan Tien.

I feel a whole body pull. I do not resist.

Overtime, the Peng or whole body outward "tension" is developed in standing still practice.

By standing still and focusing on Dan Tien, we are using our whole body to "resist" or withstand the gravitational pulls from our Dan Tian to the whole body and the limbs.

Breathing is natural.

[stonecrusher69]

I think I practice similiar the same way.When I root myself I put my weight on my heels not on the center of the foot.I feel it helps me to root better.When you do other standing meditation like the one called embracing tree do you focus on your dan tien or on your hands? or limbs? I have heard some say to not focus on your hands or anything and some say that you must have intent when standing.What do you think?

[SPJ]

This is difficult to explain.

Yes, there is an acupunture point called Yong Quan Xue in the middle of the foot.

Ren and Du Mai are in the mid line of the body. One is at the front and the other is in the back.

They meet at Hui Yin and Bai Hui at the bottom of groins and on the top of the head.

If you stand straight or slightly arched as the nature alignment of the spine, and you are totally relaxed.

The Qi flow thus moves smoothly without obstruction.

This is the purpose of standing practice.

Raising both arms at the level of the shoulder. The palms facing you with 10 cm apart in front of you.

This is called Tai Ji Zhuang.

The shoulders have to relax. The elbows sink a little.

This is the basic posture for Tai Ji Quan.

In the beginning, you clear your mind and totally relax all your muscles.

The neck is relaxed as if suspended. The chest tugs in a little. The back arched a little. As if you are holding a ball with your upper body structure.

They are ready to expand a little.

You focus on your Dan Tian. And just feel the wind.

If you focus on your hands, you may tense your arms.

Feel the Qi flows.

The "tension" or Peng Jin you want to feel is actually from the whole body or upper body plus arms.

The whole and not a point in hands.

And yes, some people would imagine a point between the hands and focus on that. But that would tense your muscles for a lot of people.

[SPJ]

My brother is better than I in Qi Gong and health.

My knowledge and practice are for martial arts purposes.

[stonecrusher69]

again thanks for your help and information.do you practice the small circulation qi gong?

[fiercest tiger]

Great Thread, I am learning the WUn Yuen Kung system and we do 45 minutes a day of standing chi kung set. Now i have felt the sickness and light headed, swaying etc also.

With wun yuen we are natural and dont hum hung round the back and sink the cest because this can put stress on the internal organs and is not a natural posture therefore it goes against the Dao. No thought or intent of anything because this also stops energy and can give you health porblems plus let chi do what it wants just as if you are walking down the street, not thinking just walking. Chi is always there and if you force chi you will never get it!

SPJ,

I like your info alot can u tell me what Zhan Zhang postures give you what types of Ging/jings?

If you know that what be kool!

Cheers
FT

[stonecrusher69]

the main posture I practice is the tai chi stance.Its hard to say what kind of jing it develope because everytime I practice it's different everytime.as far as not having mindful intent when practicing I don't feel it stops the flow of chi.I don't force it but do use mindful intent.I agree with you about letting the chi go where it wants thats good to do also,but not all chi gong is done that way.

[RickMatz]

Andrzej Kalisz wrote a book on Zhan Zhuang Qigong, which is available as a free download on his website:

www.yiquan.com.pl

[JaguarWarrior]

Thanks, I'll look into it.

[kung fu fighter]

Does anyone have this ebook "Zhan Zhuang & The Search of Wu By Yu Yong Nian – Ebook (210 pages with B&W illus.- 55 000 words):" http://yiquan.chinamartialarts.net/Yu-YN-ebook.html

and would you recomend it ?

[SimonM]

I won't lie, I have a pretty big problem with standing stake meditation - as fight training. How people choose to stand when meditating really doesn't concern me. However that's not what people pushing Standing Stake claim to be doing.

Here are my reasons why I've got an issue. You'll note that all of this discussion will be couched in rational discourse regarding mechanics of the body. If you can explain without resorting to pseudo-mystical nonsense an error in my reasoning I'll be happy to hear you out.

Counting down:

3) Sensitivity is best trained dynamically.

The proponents of Standing Stake training claim it helps build sensitivity. They point to example of "internal" masters who had their students spend up to a decade standing stake before learning a thing and claim that these students were better for it.

The problem is that in a fight you won't be standing perfectly still. A body in motion has different properties than a body at rest - namely things like velocity and angular momentum. By training sensitivity without considering how body sensitivity is affected by being in motion, and in fact by being in motion when an oppositional force is contending against you, it is training a bad practice for a fighter.

Unless you have no body awareness to begin with (IE: you are too uncoordinated to walk) the ten years of training standing still are ten waisted years.

A novice pugilist with a few months of actual practice boxing, and especially wrestling, will have developed a sensitivity to body position that will include understanding of how dynamic forces work.

The same can not be said for somebody who just practised standing stock-still.

2) Standing still has no combat application. I find the concept behind Standing Stake to be disingenuous. Even with forms, although I think there are more efficient ways to train, there is some attempt to practice a series of movements with specific applications. This is lacking in Standing Stake.

I understand that the founder of Yiquan took the concept of formlessness very seriously. But I have serious reservations about his pedagogical method. If you want to teach somebody not to use specific forms while fighting you show him how the various pieces work, in detail, and then you teach him to identify moments of change and transition so that he can understand to apply the appropriate technique at the appropriate moment. Training formlessness by having the student literally do nothing accomplishes nothing.

1) ELBOW POSITIONING!!!

This is a HUGE beef I have with students of Standing Stake and it is one I can demonstrate easily.

Here's a video of standing stake.

I want you to notice where the elbows are - high and wide.

Now, here's a video of a yiquan player shadow-boxing.
And just for good measure, another video of a yiquan player shadow-boxing.

Again notice the elbows - they always return to high and wide.

Here is a video of a yiquan player demonstrating push-hand basics.

Where are the elbows? High and wide.

This is bad. This is REALLY bad. Why?

Here is why:

Pay attention at 1:39 -if your elbows are sticking out this is very easy to do.

That's not even considering the fact that you are basically opening yourself for unlimited gut-shots with this guard. It's not considering that the width and projection of the arms makes the guard next-to useless for protecting the face. If your elbows are sticking out you are giving them to any decent grappler in any style.

And if they have your elbow they have your back.

If a grappler has your back you are screwed.

From what I have seen of Yiquan (the martial art that makes the widest use of standing stake) the focus on the practice conditions the players to have a high, wide guard.

This is a direct result of spending up to a decade holding their arms high with elbows wide as a key component of training. It is, simply put, training a bad habit.

Oh, yeah, also if your elbows are wide you cut off your arms from your body for power generation on strikes. This explains why so many Yiquan videos seem not to involve the torso at all in power generation, the mechanics of the arms limits them.

[David Jamieson]

who promotes this as fight training?

That's almost laughable if it wasn't such a bass ackwards application of this simple and otherwise straightforward qigong.

seriously, who tries to make that "fight training"?

[SimonM]

who promotes this as fight training?

That's almost laughable if it wasn't such a bass ackwards application of this simple and otherwise straightforward qigong.

seriously, who tries to make that "fight training"?

I have had a few people here freak out on me for saying it wasn't fight training recently.

In fact one person started an entire thread basically complaining that my critique of Yiquan (on these mechanical issues) was unfair.

[wenshu]

Here's a video of standing stake.

Up to this point we have been woefully bereft of videos demonstrating how to stand still while trying not to think.

Do they have any videos on how to sit still?

[SimonM]

You'll have to figure that one out for yourself.