Qi

[Hendrik]

I agree and dis-agree with Terence. since the the post some how got delete. Here I post my reply.



I agree Yes there are lots of fake Qi-gong teachers out there who has no idea what they are talking about and have no clue on the subject but posting as masters to cheat and mislead people.

However, Qi is real stuffs and Qi have different levels and different characteristics.


Since I dont know how to post PDF pictures here. If someone could help me I would.
Here is the real record of Qi or Energy research experiment of my sifu Li JiXing last year. Also, he has just completed another research experiment on blood cancer cell a few weeks ago. and the result is similar to the following one.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Time: December 2nd to December 20th, 2006
Place: Laboratory of Penn State Children’s Hospital
Host: Professor John E. Neely MD, Pediatrics, Hematology-Oncology

Set Up: Dr, Neely chose one type of bone cancer cells ( bone tumor) for the ex-
periment. This particular cell line is known to be resistant to cyclophosphamide, a common
chemotherapy used to treat this tumor.
There were two incubators in the laboratory. First one contained two shelves; cells placed
on the upper shelf were for experiment, cells placed on the lower shelf were for control
(comparison). There were only control cells in the second incubator.

Procedure: During this period of time, Jixing Li sent healing energy from his office located in
Mountain View, California to contain the growth of those cancer cells placed in the
experiment shelf. Jixing Li has never been to the Penn State Children’s Hospital nor known
the exact location of this laboratory.
Dr. Neely’s assistant counted the total number of cells regularly. There were significant
differences in growth rate starting from the 3rd day. On the 12th day, cells on the control
shelf already grew full in their plates. Cells on the experiment shelf first grew in a much
slower rate and eventually the number of cells decreased almost to zero. Also, there were
cells contained multiple nuclei in the experiment group, which could not be explained by
modern medical science as how it happened.

There were three sets of cells on the experiment shelf, Jixing Li used
three different energy transformation methods which represented by 1A-
2, 1B and 1C-2. Control 2 and Control 3 were control cells; there were
no energy work on those cells so the cells were growing at their normal
There were cells contained multiple nuclei, which
could not be explained by modern medical science
as how it happened.
Chart and photograph provided by Penn State Children’s Hospital


________________________________________



I post this above here to show as evidence. since Terence mention about cancer.

Yes, Qi exist. and also Yes, Qi cultivation exist in WCK's SLT. However, coud we tap into its training....etc That is the big question. however, research into the YJKYM will clearly tell if the set one does can or cannot carry one that far.

As my sifu Li Ji-Xing told me, one cant just read a few books and using one speculative mind to think one knows and start teaching others what one has no clue.



So, Terence, you are right, lots of so called Qigung or WCK qigung masters are BSing.

ask the Qigung teacher to show you how to evoke your Qi within the first 12 hours of training. if he cant help you to manifest after the taining or he cant even manifest for himself.
Walk away dont waste your life and money.



Terence, since you are proffessional and I am sure you have connection to Penn State, called them up, check on them.

Let's Give the ancient Chinese ancestors a fair trail give an honest anwer to the public.



peace

[Daniel09]

That's really neat. It's too bad no one seems to have mastered a teaching method though. Or, at least they haven't found a public one.

I've been working with my own Qi. I haven't had any training, just on my own, but I'm beginning to get an idea of using it for healing, as my feet have been injured in some way. When I concentrate the energy there I get instant pain relief, but my problem is the pain comes back. Thus, I've come to the conclusion that I don't have enough control yet. I plan on excersizing it over the next 10-20 years to try and gain control. Till then I will read what I can and see what works.

[Hendrik]

That's really neat. It's too bad no one seems to have mastered a teaching method though. Or, at least they haven't found a public one.

I've been working with my own Qi. I haven't had any training, just on my own, but I'm beginning to get an idea of using it for healing, as my feet have been injured in some way. When I concentrate the energy there I get instant pain relief, but my problem is the pain comes back. Thus, I've come to the conclusion that I don't have enough control yet. I plan on excersizing it over the next 10-20 years to try and gain control. Till then I will read what I can and see what works.

GEt a teacher that is the shortest path to learn to handle this. Dont waste life.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The issue with Qi is that science has yet to prove it exists, in a way that the people who believe in chi agree with.

Is it air?
breathe?
Bioelectrical field ?
Can it be cultivate? manipulated?
If the people that "preach" it can't agree on it, how can anyone on the outside looking in "believe"?

Kind of like the WC thread about "Bong", 9 pages of WC people debating what it is, can you imagine that about a left hook ??

[Hendrik]

The issue with Qi is that science has yet to prove it exists, in a way that the people who believe in chi agree with.

Is it air?
breathe?
Bioelectrical field ?
Can it be cultivate? manipulated?
If the people that "preach" it can't agree on it, how can anyone on the outside looking in "believe"?

Kind of like the WC thread about "Bong", 9 pages of WC people debating what it is, can you imagine that about a left hook ??

Read my post above.


It has been proven it exist be it in USA, Japan, or China --- Scientifically interm of wave and field.

It can be cultivate, manipulated..... certainly otherwise my sifu cannot do the experiment with Penn State and be able to repeat his handling on energy be it in China, Japan, or the USA's research lab.


The real problem is
Certainly, it is the issue that you have not update your knowledge on what happen in research in the past 5 years before your make your claim above.

and from your post you dont have any idea what is it.

So, why commenting or speculating anything you dont know?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Read my post above.


It has been proven it exist be it in USA, Japan, or China --- Scientifically interm of wave and field.

It can be cultivate, manipulated..... certainly otherwise my sifu cannot do the experiment with Penn State and be able to repeat his handling on energy be it in China, Japan, or the USA's research lab.


The real problem is
Certainly, it is the issue that you have not update your knowledge on what happen in research in the past 5 years before your make your claim above.

and from your post you dont have any idea what is it.

So, why commenting or speculating anything you dont know?

Did you read my post?
I said that people DON'T agree on what Qi is, I quote myself:
The issue with Qi is that science has yet to prove it exists, in a way that the people who believe in chi agree with.

And please feel free to link to these studies that have proven the exsistence of Qi.

[Hendrik]

Did you read my post?
I said that people DON'T agree on what Qi is, I quote myself:
The issue with Qi is that science has yet to prove it exists, in a way that the people who believe in chi agree with.

And please feel free to link to these studies that have proven the exsistence of Qi.

why dont you call Penn State and the MD above before you post?

And again,

you could believe anything you want including the world is the center of universe as once upon a time what human believe.. free will.

[Corwyn]

Read my post above.
It has been proven it exist be it in USA, Japan, or China --- Scientifically interm of wave and field.

It can be cultivate, manipulated..... certainly otherwise my sifu cannot do the experiment with Penn State and be able to repeat his handling on energy be it in China, Japan, or the USA's research lab.

The real problem is
Certainly, it is the issue that you have not update your knowledge on what happen in research in the past 5 years before your make your claim above.

and from your post you dont have any idea what is it.

So, why commenting or speculating anything you dont know?

REALLY??? Proven by whom and under what conditions? Can you name a SINGLE peer reviewed article or a double blind study published in any reputable journal by these mysterious un-names, unknown experimenters at Penn state? What department at Penn State? How were these studies done? How were these experiments controlled?


No I didn't think so! Instead you'll just give us more mysterious "they" and "some" and tell us how we just haven't educated ourselves, or have been brainwashed by the conspiracy of the establish science community. Typical cultist mentality.

It ALWAYS amazes me when people make such claims. They have no CLUE as to the actual implications of the nonsense they believe and post. I guess mostly because they lack even the most basic skills in critical thinking and science. Otherwise they wouldn't get suckered into the woo in the first place.

Belief in this is no different then believing in fairy's, UFO's, big foot,
Jesus, 911 conspiracies, intelligent design, heaven's gate Jim Jones and the list goes on.
EVERY one of these group of nutters have some things in common;
a) they all claim to have some special access to mysterious powers/knowledge that can only be found through them.

b) this knowledge has been proven ( evidence which they can NEVER provide though) but is being hidden or suppressed by the eeeevil (fill in the blank)

c) an extreme level of condescension ( exemplified in the above quote) towards anyone with the audacity to question said belief.

What amuses me the most is how people who so adamantly believe in such nonsense on the one hand have such contempt for others woo. The cognitive dissonance required is Olympic.

Substitute Hedricks claims about chi with Intelligent design and you have the same exact statements made by the likes of Behe in the recent Dover trials.
Substitute chi with UFO's and you get exactly the same statement from Applewhite
(the leader of Heavens Gate) Yet if you were to ask H about Heavens Gate, dollars to donuts he'd tell you Applewhite was a loon. Behe would tell you that both of these guys are nutters who will burn in hell for believing in the wrong god.

This wouldn't be a big deal, and it would even be funny, but for the incredible harm these people inflict on the gullible, the desperate , children or the ill.

So Sanjoro while I applaud your effort and share your fight, recognize that mostly you are banging your head against the wall and no you will never receive a straight answer from people like this.

[Corwyn]

why dont you call Penn State and the MD above before you post?

And again,

you could believe anything you want including the world is the center of universe as once upon a time what human believe.. free will.

What MD you didn't name anyone and what department at Penn?
And what does that prove? SO some nut professor with tenure is waisting tax dollars trying to prove his delusions. Have you ever heard of the scientific method? No I didn't think so. There are "universities" setup by fundi christians offering degrees in the biblical study that the earth is only 6000 years old.
Do you accept that too because some one at "university" says so??
If not why not?

BUT FORGET ALL THAT. The onus is on YOU! This is typical WOO tactics of trying to move the goal posts and getting the "opposition" to prove a negative.

You are the one making claims, without providing ANY proof except some unsubstantiated stuff about a study.

You know what normal people call that? - LYING or to be kind delusional.

[Sihing73]

Jesus was a historical figure known to exist. Questions are regarding his claim to divinity. Why do people who opt to believe have to be "nutters". Consider the change in all of the disciples who went into hiding when Christ was crucified but then preached about him, and the way of Salvation. Each of these, with the exception of John who died in exile, died horrible deaths. Why would they suffer so, along with so many others, for a false faith. The scientific method considers evidence so please explain the change in the disciples using science.

Scientific evidence is not always accurate and sometimes what was once taken as gospel is proven to be incorrect as technology advances.

Since you quote science as being the end all please explain to me how a bumble bee can fly and a hummingbird can hover. If you can't explain these two examples of nature then how can you say without reservation that QI does not exist?

[Daniel09]

GEt a teacher that is the shortest path to learn to handle this. Dont waste life.

I'm not sure what you mean by waste life. If you think I was injured during practice you're mistaken. I injured my feet while running, and I have been practicing qi control to try and speed up the healing, but nothing stupid. I am a very scientific thinker and I don't take to believing superstitious things right off the bat. I've seen my own qi work, and that's enough to get me researching.

The problem most people have is that there's no bottle that says "qi" that they can study. Because they can't see it or manipulate it with instruments, they immediately take it as a myth. The point of science is to branch out into unknown regions and explain them. If you choose one explanation and allow no changes, what are you achieving. If anyone here knows anything about true science they wouldn't so easily take this as a crackpot loony bin experiment. They would analyze it, ask questions, and attempt to repeat the experiment with all means possible. They would find loopholes in the testing and fix them, then try again.

All this talk about "impossibilities" is the rubbish. From my experience, and I shall say the experience history has taught us, nothing is impossible. It may seem unlikely, but you never know until you, and I stress you, have tested it yourself in every way, shape, and form. Just because a study is performed doesn't make it fact, just like just because you say qi doesn't exist is not a fact. It's an OPINION. Enough said.

[Hendrik]

believe what you like and create the world as you believe. it is a free will world.

as you like so you got.

[sanjuro_ronin]

See this is the issue, I, who incidently does believe in chi as a bio-electrical magnetic force in every living being, was reamed by someone because I simply stated that there are different views of chi is, that are held by those the believe in its existence.

As for calling up Penn state, no problem, gotta a couple of friends that went there, as it was, what departement , the same one in what you posted?

" Host: Professor John E. Neely MD, Pediatrics, Hematology-Oncology "

[Corwyn]

Jesus was a historical figure known to exist.

ONLY if you live in Fundie land! There are 2 contemporary references to Jesus. BUT the work of both Josephus and Tacitus were KNOWN to have been changed by early christians to try to provide primary sources for Christ's "existence". One has been absolutely proven to be a forgery. The other is very questionable. You have to do better than this. AND even if you were to accept these as accurate statements. All they actually say is (this is short hand) There are some people running around saying that this guy jesus was god, but he died.
WOW, That's just powerful evidence. I hope you don't sit on any jury anytime soon. Further, 1000s of people are walking around RIGHT NOW within 10 miles of where ever you are (statistically) who BELIEVE that they were kidnapped by aliens. They FAR out number by any account the number of followers of this jesus fellow. Why don't you believe them?

Consider the change in all of the disciples who went into hiding when Christ was crucified but then preached about him, and the way of Salvation. Each of these, with the exception of John who died in exile, died horrible deaths. Why would they suffer so, along with so many others, for a false faith. The scientific method considers evidence so please explain the change in the disciples using science.

Well, those same UFO abductees, their lives have changed too, why aren't you joining their cult??????

Don't all the books in North Korea attest to the divine origins of Kim Jong Il-- his father was a god-- all the books say so... and Kim Jong Il has done miracles-- all those millions of people can't be wrong-- can they?
The number of KJI followers outnumber jesus' followers for the first 300 years combined by something like 300 to one.
North Koreans starve to death by the 100,000s year in year out. There have even been rumors of cannibalism in some parts of N K because people are starving. All so KJI could spend $300,000 a year on Cognac. All these people are suffering horribly in far greater numbers than the few straggly sheppard you prostrate yourself to blindly.

And the Mormons have a burning in the bosom giving them an "inner knowingness" that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, that F8king your 12 year old daughters or selling them to 40 year old cousins is a good thing, and the messages and the souls of humans are brought to earth from another planet by ufos (YEP -Look it up that's what Mormons believe).

Scientology tell you the proof is that their program works-- and Tom Cruise and John Travolta are amazingly successful. So why are you not signing up?

Do you have any evidence beyond the usual confirmation bias/delusional type stuff? Anything measurable to prove that consciousness - qi or any other - can exist outside a body...(and where exactly is it in the body while you are alive) and one of those consciousness is named "Jesus"?
Because if not, isn't it the same as all the woo proffered here... Everyone thinks they have the true woo. I don't understand why you think Christianity or qi is more likely to be true than the ones I listed above or the myriad of other faiths dreamed up by scared, mentally ill people who were either afraid to face reality or wanted power over others who were. Why we should give your "evidence" more weight than all similar "evidence" presented for different beliefs???

Scientific evidence is not always accurate and sometimes what was once taken as gospel is proven to be incorrect as technology advances.
Since you quote science as being the end all please explain to me how a bumble bee can fly and a hummingbird can hover.

NO that's not what I said that's what you think I said. Science is not AN answer! Science is a METHOD to examine the physical world and the phenomenon in it! It is a way of examining, testing and verifying hypothesis which gives us conclusions - to the best of our current understanding about how the world
- THE ACTUAL world - works. Has it made mistakes? Absolutely - But here is the thing about science and what separates it from your delusions! IT is EXACTLY the same METHOD that proves a thing that can also disprove a thing with new information!

Unlike the jewish zombie or the universal force of chi. Science makes claims that can be tested, verified and falsified. I don't need to have special powers, or a certain level of open mindedness to do the math that tells me how planes fly or a rockets trajectory or how this computer interprets a bunch of zeros and 1s into the picture you see and the text you read. I don't have to abandon reason for madness to see the majic jujjuu bead.

If you can't explain these two examples of nature then how can you say without reservation that QI does not exist?

That's pretty FUNNY - did you just cut and paste this ignorance from
www.doesgodexist.com or some other IDiot site? I did not study aerodynamics and my calc skills are considerably rusty. Add to that the fact that even if I posted the calculations for you it would be just a waist of my time - BUT here is a hint!

There are these big buildings - virtually EVERY town has one - they are just full and I mean wall to wall (the horror) of these things called - are you ready - BOOKS. These things, they actually EXPLAIN how things REALLY work! Where you can go out and replicate them and find independent sources all by your self, instead of taking the word of some poorly written fiction by a tribe of sheepherders from 2000 years ago or some fat man who is trying to take your cash while diddling your children.

You can also be lazy and try GOOGLE
or click here www.physorg.com/news4688.html

Questions are regarding his claim to divinity. Why do people who opt to believe have to be "nutters".

Well let me see -
The belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father and was born by raping his mother can make you live for ever, if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood. Then telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because of a rib that turned into a woman was convinced by talking to a snake who has no ears or vocal chords to eat from a magical tree - YEA Now that you've explained it, it makes perfect rational sense to me.

Oh and we won't even get into the whole ethical and moral - or should I say lack there of - quandary of holding someone responsible for other peoples misdeeds.


Now back to Qi for a minute.
The more you read this stuff, the more you realize that Qi proponents and perpetual motion machine crack pots are saying exactly the same nonsense.
The only difference is the deliery system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

which actually makes perpetual motion crackpots one step above qi because at least they have an explanation of how the power is created, stored and delivered.

Since qi proponents claim that qi can effect the REAL physical world, can be used to kill people etc. It has to have a PHYSICAL presence, weight, mass etc. It also HAS to reside somewhere in the human body or the human body HAS to have some physical structure which can retreive, store and conduct said energy?

Simple questions? What is this mechanism? what is the physical structure and conductor that conveys this energy? How is it that this energy has no negative effect on the human body? Why can we not see, touch or measure this response in the human body? Why can we not see touch or measure this "energy" by any instrument known to man though any independent means. Much like the non-sense that comes from ESP proponents, Ghost hunters, fortune tellers, Yuri Geller
Benny Hinn and Pat Robertson.

[Kemo Martin]

Jesus was a historical figure known to exist. Questions are regarding his claim to divinity. Why do people who opt to believe have to be "nutters". Consider the change in all of the disciples who went into hiding when Christ was crucified but then preached about him, and the way of Salvation. Each of these, with the exception of John who died in exile, died horrible deaths. Why would they suffer so, along with so many others, for a false faith. The scientific method considers evidence so please explain the change in the disciples using science.

Scientific evidence is not always accurate and sometimes what was once taken as gospel is proven to be incorrect as technology advances.

Since you quote science as being the end all please explain to me how a bumble bee can fly and a hummingbird can hover. If you can't explain these two examples of nature then how can you say without reservation that QI does not exist?

WOW, I like your thinking......


Romans 1
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.