Qi

[Sihing73]

Hello Corwyn,

You seem to have a lot of negativity directed towards the subject of Jesus and this is a sad thing. I did find the article relating to the Hummingbird of interest and it does provoke thought. However the very uniqueness of the Hummingbird and its structure would lead me to bolster my faith rather than remove it. How likely is it that Evolution or Chance would result in the unique features which enable the Hummingbrid to fly and hover?

For anyone interested the below links point to some sites with interesting points regarding the Bible and the proof provided by Science.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn53/bibletrue.htm

http://www.geocities.com/worldview_3/science.html

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

You are welcome to make up your own mind, just as those who wish to believe are welcome to make up their own mind as well.

[Corwyn]

It always amazes me to no end how the woo, especially the fundie kind, seem to believe that those who criticize their belief just need to know more. (more like need to be brainwashed more)

News flash - I'll bet you dollars to donuts that I KNOW FAR more about the history and text of the faith you profess to follow than you do.

As for my negativity towards jesus - it is at about the same level as yours was yesterday about the pink flying unicorn, the orbiting tea pot or his wholyness the flying spaghetti monster. HOW does one have positive or negative feelings about a person that one knows does not exist unless one is delusional?

It is about the people who hide their willful and total ignorance of the world, the things they CLAIM they believe and the display of hatred and bigotry and intolerance towards all others with and for no other excuse than a poorly written fairy tale.


As to your links - I don't expect you to understand, after all the intellectual dishonesty, the lack of character, and the emotional crippling required to even post such links as some kind of evidence for anything other than an example of metal disorder precludes you from understanding the joke that is these links.

But FYI _ even rabid foaming at the mouth Intelligent Designers like Behe have recognised that using such arguments accomplishes nothing but making them look like the fools you are. You might want to catch up.


That bats are birds ( I guess jesus or daddy had senile moment ha?)
Lev 11:13/19. Yes I've heard the xian apologists explain how this just means creatures with wings, bu then obviously your fairy jewish zombie isn't omnipotent as he would have KNOWN that humans would invent Linnean classification and know that bats are not birds
So now you have to pick he's either not all knowing or his not all powerful!
Quick run for the lithium.

Mosquitoes and Vampire Bats along with tape worms were all herbivores
Gen 1:30 By the way if there was jewish zombie god all he would have to do is turn these ****ED mosquito's back to being herbivores and I'd believe.

It is funny how this little creation of your gods has caused the untold suffering of more humans than just about everything else combined and he, you, the devil, - NONE of you take credit for it Oversight I guess

"god" displaying his COMPLETE understanding of genetics and procreation
(or is this one of those things that again shows your gods lack of omnipotence AND omniscience ... at the same time?) Because as EVERYONE knows the way you get striped goats is by putting striped sticks in the water they drink
Gen 30:38


Then there are parts where your god outright lies -
Jos1:3-5 (See Ex.33:2; Dt.7:1, 7:24, 9:4-6, 31:3-7; Jos.1:1-5, 3:10, 17:17-18, 21:41-43) directly contradicts Jos.15:63, 16:10, 17:12-13, Jg.1:21, 1:27, 3:1-5
So your blood thirsty racist bigot fairy can't even keep his sh8 straight in one lousy human book.

Back to the science for a minute
Jos. 10:13 the SUN STOOD STILL yea that's really scientifical there

We won't even get into details about why your All LOVE fairy granted this special dispensation of reality - clue has to do with genocide and murder of the highest order.


Again to even contemplate such nonsense as reality shows a complete disregard for intellectual honesty and a perfect example of the fundie lying for jebus crowd. There is no point in arguing with someone who bothers to post such stupidity.

The only thing it proves and is useful for is to show that people like this are
just like the Klan, AL qaeda, the Taliban or the neo nazis

I knew this from the beginning and I don't post in threads like this to convince the afflicted, but rather to
a) show people the thinking process behind bigotry
b) try to stem some of the tide of the one sided idiocy.
c) and point out that when you wonder what kind of people it takes to
fly planes into building or want someone beheaded because they allowed a group of kids to give the wrong name to a bear all you have to do is look
at this post and understand that the only thing preventing the same things happening here is a few rules of law.

[Daniel09]

You must know my father. He grew up preached to about christianity, under his parents hopes that he'd become a minister. He's an atheist now, though he tells me that even that doesn't make sense, because atheism is not a religion nor something that can be followed, thus it technically does not exist (or something like that. He's a much better debater than I am). I did have more to say, but I can't think of it, so I'll end it here.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It always amazes me to no end how the woo, especially the fundie kind, seem to believe that those who criticize their belief just need to know more. (more like need to be brainwashed more)

News flash - I'll bet you dollars to donuts that I KNOW FAR more about the history and text of the faith you profess to follow than you do.

As for my negativity towards jesus - it is at about the same level as yours was yesterday about the pink flying unicorn, the orbiting tea pot or his wholyness the flying spaghetti monster. HOW does one have positive or negative feelings about a person that one knows does not exist unless one is delusional?

It is about the people who hide their willful and total ignorance of the world, the things they CLAIM they believe and the display of hatred and bigotry and intolerance towards all others with and for no other excuse than a poorly written fairy tale.


As to your links - I don't expect you to understand, after all the intellectual dishonesty, the lack of character, and the emotional crippling required to even post such links as some kind of evidence for anything other than an example of metal disorder precludes you from understanding the joke that is these links.

But FYI _ even rabid foaming at the mouth Intelligent Designers like Behe have recognised that using such arguments accomplishes nothing but making them look like the fools you are. You might want to catch up.


That bats are birds ( I guess jesus or daddy had senile moment ha?)
Lev 11:13/19. Yes I've heard the xian apologists explain how this just means creatures with wings, bu then obviously your fairy jewish zombie isn't omnipotent as he would have KNOWN that humans would invent Linnean classification and know that bats are not birds
So now you have to pick he's either not all knowing or his not all powerful!
Quick run for the lithium.

Mosquitoes and Vampire Bats along with tape worms were all herbivores
Gen 1:30 By the way if there was jewish zombie god all he would have to do is turn these ****ED mosquito's back to being herbivores and I'd believe.

It is funny how this little creation of your gods has caused the untold suffering of more humans than just about everything else combined and he, you, the devil, - NONE of you take credit for it Oversight I guess

"god" displaying his COMPLETE understanding of genetics and procreation
(or is this one of those things that again shows your gods lack of omnipotence AND omniscience ... at the same time?) Because as EVERYONE knows the way you get striped goats is by putting striped sticks in the water they drink
Gen 30:38


Then there are parts where your god outright lies -
Jos1:3-5 (See Ex.33:2; Dt.7:1, 7:24, 9:4-6, 31:3-7; Jos.1:1-5, 3:10, 17:17-18, 21:41-43) directly contradicts Jos.15:63, 16:10, 17:12-13, Jg.1:21, 1:27, 3:1-5
So your blood thirsty racist bigot fairy can't even keep his sh8 straight in one lousy human book.

Back to the science for a minute
Jos. 10:13 the SUN STOOD STILL yea that's really scientifical there

We won't even get into details about why your All LOVE fairy granted this special dispensation of reality - clue has to do with genocide and murder of the highest order.


Again to even contemplate such nonsense as reality shows a complete disregard for intellectual honesty and a perfect example of the fundie lying for jebus crowd. There is no point in arguing with someone who bothers to post such stupidity.

The only thing it proves and is useful for is to show that people like this are
just like the Klan, AL qaeda, the Taliban or the neo nazis

I knew this from the beginning and I don't post in threads like this to convince the afflicted, but rather to
a) show people the thinking process behind bigotry
b) try to stem some of the tide of the one sided idiocy.
c) and point out that when you wonder what kind of people it takes to
fly planes into building or want someone beheaded because they allowed a group of kids to give the wrong name to a bear all you have to do is look
at this post and understand that the only thing preventing the same things happening here is a few rules of law.

I always love how anti-religious people and religious fanatics "sound" the same.

[Scott R. Brown]

believe what you like and create the world as you believe. it is a free will world.

as you like so you got.

Hi Hendrik,

I am curious just what these comments exactly mean to you?

If I believe I can fly without any artificial assistance, will I be able to fly? If this is what you mean, please show me someone who can fly without any artificial assistance. If I believe I can sit in the middle of a bonfire for 30 minutes without incurring any injury, will I be able to do this? If this is what you mean then please sit in the middle of a bonfire for 30 minutes for me and demonstrate to me the Truth of your comment?

If Qi exists then it exists whether anyone believes in it or not and whether it may be empirically demonstrated or not, but also, if Qi does not exist, then no matter how much we want to believe in it, IT STILL DOES NOT EXIST!!

We cannot MAKE something exist that does not actually exist. I do not understand how simply BELIEVING what strikes our fancy will create what is not actually possible! How does simply BELIEVING change what IS and what IS NOT??

If I have misunderstood your comment, please clear up my misunderstanding for me!

I always love how anti-religious people and religious fanatics "sound" the same.

Hi sanjuro_ronin,

Very good point! A fanatic is a fanatic no matter what they believe in!

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Sorry guys but I am hardly fanatical about anything. I simply opted to respond to statements made by Corwyn in order to present another viewpoint. To be honest I do not care what he or anyone else thinks, however to claim someone who does not agree with your viewpoint is wrong or deluded is hardly the sign of an superior inteligence.

Anyhow, saying something does not make it true nor false, nor does belief in something. As to Chi, it is an interesting subject and there are those capable of some extraordinary feats attributed to CHI developement. Suffice it to say that Science does not have all of the answers and it can be argued that neither does religion. Faith is the deciding factor in many things. How does one perform a sucessful firewalk without buring the feet, I have never done this, nor am I inclined to do so , however I am sure that the mind and ones faith\belief would play an important role. Is this CHI? I am not sure but it shows the ability of man to overcome many things.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hello,

Sorry guys but I am hardly fanatical about anything. I simply opted to respond to statements made by Corwyn in order to present another viewpoint. To be honest I do not care what he or anyone else thinks, however to claim someone who does not agree with your viewpoint is wrong or deluded is hardly the sign of an superior inteligence.

Anyhow, saying something does not make it true nor false, nor does belief in something. As to Chi, it is an interesting subject and there are those capable of some extraordinary feats attributed to CHI developement. Suffice it to say that Science does not have all of the answers and it can be argued that neither does religion. Faith is the deciding factor in many things. How does one perform a sucessful firewalk without buring the feet, I have never done this, nor am I inclined to do so , however I am sure that the mind and ones faith\belief would play an important role. Is this CHI? I am not sure but it shows the ability of man to overcome many things.

Actually, it was a blanket-statement, I don't think either of you are "fanatics" in your respective beliefs, it was just a comment on how the skeptic and the believer are more a like than they (usually) care to admit.

[cjurakpt]

look guys - it's being made much more complicated than it has to be:

the human body is made up of a variety of different processes (e.g. - heart rate; respiration; endocrine function; cellular metabolism; neural firing; etc.); all of these processes generate one or more of the following by-products; electrical signals, CO2, heat, motion; each of these processes can be examined individually, but they also need to be understood in context of the whole, in terms of how their interrelationships effects the human organism; some of these processes are easily discernable by the human senses as such: breathing, heart beat, connective tissue tension; others are not, but are obviously equally important (endocrine function, neurotransmitter function, cellular function);

the same exact thing can be said for the environment within which the human organism works;

when you have a somewhat reductionist approach such as is the case with so-called "western" science, the idea is to break things down to their component parts and examine each in turn in order to understand how the whole works; as such, science has developed tools by which smaller and smaller things can be observed; this makes it relatively more objective

another approach is to take a top down perspective - this way of looking at things is predicated on pattern recognition and to a large extent intuitive understanding or relatively more subjective; when you are trying to understand the whole as such, there are many individual parts that you won't observe directly; one way of encompassing the functional interrelationship of all these disparate entities, is to derive a conceptual framework that allows for a great deal of variability and individual interpretation; "qi" is one such conceptual metaphor: it is a system that allows for generally organized qualitative analysis to take place when assessing the overall functional state of the human organism in the environment within which it functions

as such, there is no "thing" to find, discover, demonstrate, test or even believe "in"; "qi" is not an independent entity like heat, electricity, motion, fluid flow, etc. - if it were, it would have it's own unique quality/ies that could not be explanined by other types of sensations - if you feel warmth coming from a "qi master", then that's what you feel: heat, not "qi"; at the same time, from the perspective of the metaphor, these phenomena are all aspects of the descriptor "qi", because they are all preceeded by functional relationships in the body

so guys, it's a meataphorical descriptor that was derived by a culture that didn't have the technological capacity to look at things under a microscope -and being limited in their ability to directly observe minute processes, they needed to rely on macro observation - and did a darn good job of it as well!

as for "God" - he needs to pack his bags and go on a loooong vacation - in the history of mankind, the belief in a "God" has been been the one most available as a justification for why people persecute and kill each other; if "God" went away, that stuff would probably still exist, but at least we'd be honest about why we treat each other so miserably...and quoting some old book that has been altered by each subsequent generation to suit its political agenda in order to justify this absurd belief system is so blatantly idiotic that it really makes you wonder how we managed to survive this long as a species...I mean, the fact alone that thousands of people march in the streets calling for the death of someone who allowed her students to name their teddy bear after some guy who had hallucinations 1,000 years ago is more than enough justification for wiping out humanity and starting over again...

[cjurakpt]

How likely is it that Evolution or Chance would result in the unique features which enable the Hummingbrid to fly and hover?

only slightly more likely then the possibility of someone walking on water, changing water into wine and otherwise defying the laws of physics; it's so absurd that you almost wonder if someone, oh, I don't know, MADE IT UP just to make their particular belief system sound more engrossing...


and BTW, its because people's tiny brains can't handle that chance is exactly what resulted in complex organisms forming and the universe working and people dying randomly everyday that they invented "God" as a means of reassuring them that "someone" out there is really in control and will make everything right in the end; face it: you're on your own, there is no big grandaddy in the sky, there's no guarantee you'll live another second after reading this and in general there's not much you can do to control most of what goes on around you; you can either accept this and realize the inherently chaotic nature of life, or not and go on believing that "god" exists and gives a crap about each and every living thing in the universe, so much so that he wants you to only eat certain foods on certain days, wear your clothing just so, and KILL anyone who suggests that he doesn't actually exist...

[Daniel09]

I understand where you're coming from and honestly, I don't fear death at all. I'd prefer to postpone it, but I don't fear it. One thing I want to comment on is your term "tiny brain." I know this was probably just a figure of speach, but I'm naive and want to say that the brain is actually quite big, we just haven't unlocked its potential. Don't take me too seriously though. I want to bike ride in 30 degree weather.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Sihing73,

Please do not misunderstand my agreement with sanjuro_ronin as well. A well stated argument does not reflect fanaticism. It reflects a well thought out opinion. It is intolerance with competing views that is a sign of fanaticism.

The fanatic here is clearly Corwyn. He is unable to make his point without ridiculing those with whom he disagrees. This is a characteristic of someone who is so confined by his own worldview he is unable to behave with even rudimentary courtesy. His attitude, not the points of his argument reveal, his fanaticism.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have the best of both worlds !
I am a critical believer !!

LOL !

I believe and because I do, I critique, I challenge, I dispute.
I am open to the notion that there is Qi ( or God if you wanna dwell on that) and open to the notion that there isn't.

Do I need proof?
Of course.
Do I realize that we may not be able to prove it yet?
Of course.
Di I care that much either way?
Of course, but not so much to be closed minded about ANY and ALL posibilities.

Its called being smart enough to know that we aren't that smart.

[Kemo Martin]

QiRead this
CONCLUSION
The human body generates electrical energy through organic action, cellular respiration, currents of injury, and piezoelectrical activity. These subtle currents form fields of force, the condensations of which form the charted meridian system. Researchers have placed the sub- strate of the meridians variously in the glial cells, fascial network, interstitial spaces, and blood vessels. Subtle electrical charges can migrate long distances in the body through semi-conduction, which passes tiny electrical charges through orderly molecular matrices. Variations in energy generation and currents of injury tend to form imbalances in ionic positive and negative charges in the body, which are associated with pain and disease. The therapeutic effects of acupuncture come from its ability to locally or distally discharge these potential differences, or otherwise help bring about optimal charge conditions of the body. Acupuncture points have greater electrical conductivity than surrounding tissues. Varieties of metals used together in the manufacture of acupuncture needles create thermocouple effects for stronger stimulation of acupoints. The body's energy systems are polarized, with the trunk and head tending to be more electropositive and the extremities electronegative. Electrostimulation that follows these natural polarities, and significantly increases conductivity between the electrodes, will tend to be more clinically effective. Non-needle microcurrent stimulation, especially when polarized to follow the body's natural polarization, can be a highly effective meridian-balancing method.



As far as my God
Jesus the comforter

I always thought it was funny
Once, when I crashed my super sport motorcycle on the freeway
70mph into the back corner of a stalled car
(no helmet cut off t-shirt, shorts)
the bike basically disintegrated
my KF teacher said I blocked it with my "CHI"
I thanked GOD






I think its sad that even those who believe even in the same god, whichever one it may be, can't even agree or get along.



Matt 7
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:


John 6
[44] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
[65] And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Matt 12
[38] Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
[39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

[Sihing73]

As far as my God
Jesus the comforter

I always thought it was funny
Once, when I crashed my super sport motorcycle on the freeway
70mph into the back corner of a stalled car
(no helmet cut off t-shirt, shorts)
the bike basically disintegrated
my KF teacher said I blocked it with my "CHI"
I thanked GOD

I think its sad that even those who believe even in the same god, whichever one it may be, can't even agree or get along.

I would have thanks GOD as well. Glad you're still here.

It is sad but expected as organized religion always seems to end up focused on man rather than heaven.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Organized religion is a plague on people.
I am all for faith and religion, but what man has made of the word ( any word, take your pick) has been horrific.