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Thread: after watching Greencloud

  1. #1

    after watching Greencloud

    Seems there is a lot of controversy with this guy. I don't remember him with CTS, so when we were all coming up (me, Chris, David, etc.) I have to assume he was one of the lower level students. Anyway, I was watching his videos and it seems as if he never got a really deep understanding of his system of kung fu. Why do I say that?

    Weak stances..lots of shifting once the weight is supposed to be set.

    Gratuitous use of butterfly. Many people seem to think this is the best move to show that they have mastered kung fu. So often this is thrown in place of a kick as an afterthought to make the form more flashy. It looks like an afterthought here. Big deal it's basically a sideways aerial cartwheel that a trained monkey can learn. This is also demonstrated as a kick which is not it's intended use. The real usage for this is a method to escape from certain throws.

    windy punches. the punches have a lack of focus. I don't believe for a moment he is imagining any real opponent in front of him.

    Silly dummy moves. By this I mean lots of weak, but fast, pimp slaps on the dummy versus any real definable technique. It may sound cool with all the slapping against the wood, but is horribly ineffective in actual combat.

    Applications which clearly will not work. EVER. I am dubious of any self defense move in which the opponent has to keep his arm out there for 10 seconds while the sifu runs around him hitting him with a dozen moves. That kind of stop action time warp is all cute in the Matrix, but it will get a mud hole stomped in you in real life. I am equally as dubious of anyone who teaches joint locks as if those are the miracle cure for a smaller defender to be able to take out a larger offender. Anyone who has ever studied true Chin Na will know that a smaller opponent's ability to lock up a larger more aggressive opponent's wrist, arm, shoulder, whatever is virtually nil UNLESS you train properly for those techniques. You must train your own wrists, fingers, etc. intensely for this to even have a prayer to work. MOST kung fu students have neither the time nor the desire to train as hard as it takes to accomplish this.

    Anyway my 5 cents...you can keep the change :P

  2. #2
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    Jeffoo,

    By the way, it was my school and students in Baltimore when you fought with Chris. We actually had 65 students competing and almost 100 people in total along with Chan Tai-San. We had a great time and did happen to get a fair share of trophies.

    Anyway, the applications and techniques that you have mentioned are NOT the way I learned it or my other classmates you mentioned. Just for the record; those dummy techniques or slaps are not from out teacher and those apps would get you seriously hurt if you fought against someone who knew step one about fighting.

    Yes, I agree, no 'intent'.

    The only reason I'm posting this is because I do not want anyone to think that THAT is what Chan Tai-San's Kung-Fu Looked Like. This is why I get upset with Green Cloud and his use of our teachers name to label stuff that is clearly of his own design.

    No flame-war here. I don't think Green Cloud can survive another one. Just telling it like it is and commenting about what someone ELSE observed and wrote about.
    Last edited by Lama Pai Sifu; 12-18-2007 at 12:16 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffoo View Post
    This is also demonstrated as a kick which is not it's intended use. The real usage for this is a method to escape from certain throws.


    Would you elaborate on this please?


    Thanx

  4. #4
    Would you elaborate on this please?

    Reply]
    Yeah, I'd like to hear that too. I always saw it as a takedown myself...ALA Cung Le.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A View Post
    Would you elaborate on this please?

    Reply]
    Yeah, I'd like to hear that too. I always saw it as a takedown myself...ALA Cung Le.
    A butterfly kick is not a leg scissor takedown!
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  6. #6
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    Hello

    Is there a link to the video of topic?
    "Don't think,
    just train"

  7. #7
    Quite honestly, I have VERY LITTLE interest in this topic anymore

    There is a video that Gus put up of him working on a wooden dummy

    Good or bad, that isn't the point. Gus is doing Wing Chun. Chan Tai San did not do Wing Chun and Gus did not learn what he is doing on the video from Chan Tai San

    So, and I speak for many of Chan Tai San students I think, I really don't care whether it is good or bad, I just wish he wouldn't say it is Chan Tai San's kung fu.

    This will be my LAST POST in regards to this
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lama Pai Sifu View Post
    Jeffoo,

    By the way, it was my school and students in Baltimore when you fought with Chris. We actually had 65 students competing and almost 100 people in total along with Chan Tai-San. We had a great time and did happen to get a fair share of trophies.

    Anyway, the applications and techniques that you have mentioned are NOT the way I learned it or my other classmates you mentioned. Just for the record; those dummy techniques or slaps are not from out teacher and those apps would get you seriously hurt if you fought against someone who knew step one about fighting.

    Yes, I agree, no 'intent'.

    The only reason I'm posting this is because I do not want anyone to think that THAT is what Chan Tai-San's Kung-Fu Looked Like. This is why I get upset with Green Cloud and his use of our teachers name to label stuff that is clearly of his own design.

    No flame-war here. I don't think Green Cloud can survive another one. Just telling it like it is and commenting about what someone ELSE observed and wrote about.
    Yeah I was not impugning your style at all...I think we all know what's what. I was for sure comparing his stuff to real kung fu. I didn't refer to Green as a good representative of the style (well Lama is a small part of what he teaches, according to his website)...LOL It's like Raul Ortiz trying to tell people he was a good representative of mantis. *cough cough* People that do that make us all looked like smacked asses. :P Thanks for clarifying my point though.

    In Baltimore I remember everywhere I looked were black shorts with red trim...LOL

    I knew that CTS had others who were already teaching students and then also had his own classes as well. Those days were a blast and I don't think any of the organizations that popped up after 1996 were able to capture that talent and quality of event.

    By the time Chris and I fought he and I and CYH and CTS were friends and our schools got along very well. It was always easier to fight someone you didn't know and especially who you didn't like. Both of our schools fought very hard. Us because we were one of the smaller schools, you guys because you were one of the larger and always had people "gunning" for you.

    There were 3-4 of you upper level students I remember who were close to CTS...you, David, Chris and wasn't there a Steven?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Quite honestly, I have VERY LITTLE interest in this topic anymore

    There is a video that Gus put up of him working on a wooden dummy

    Good or bad, that isn't the point. Gus is doing Wing Chun. Chan Tai San did not do Wing Chun and Gus did not learn what he is doing on the video from Chan Tai San

    So, and I speak for many of Chan Tai San students I think, I really don't care whether it is good or bad, I just wish he wouldn't say it is Chan Tai San's kung fu.

    This will be my LAST POST in regards to this
    I agree. I'm not judging, just dont' want anyone to think that it is CHAN TAI-SAN's Kung-Fu. That's all. Green Cloud could smack wooden dummies until the bleed for all I care. Just don't want anyone thinking that my Sifu taught the method that he is using.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Quite honestly, I have VERY LITTLE interest in this topic anymore

    There is a video that Gus put up of him working on a wooden dummy

    Good or bad, that isn't the point. Gus is doing Wing Chun. Chan Tai San did not do Wing Chun and Gus did not learn what he is doing on the video from Chan Tai San

    So, and I speak for many of Chan Tai San students I think, I really don't care whether it is good or bad, I just wish he wouldn't say it is Chan Tai San's kung fu.

    This will be my LAST POST in regards to this

    yep...it's not even very good wing chun either. :P

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Quite honestly, I have VERY LITTLE interest in this topic anymore

    There is a video that Gus put up of him working on a wooden dummy

    Good or bad, that isn't the point. Gus is doing Wing Chun. Chan Tai San did not do Wing Chun and Gus did not learn what he is doing on the video from Chan Tai San

    So, and I speak for many of Chan Tai San students I think, I really don't care whether it is good or bad, I just wish he wouldn't say it is Chan Tai San's kung fu.

    This will be my LAST POST in regards to this
    I would love to the clip got a link? who did he study under?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffoo View Post
    Yeah I was not impugning your style at all...I think we all know what's what. I was for sure comparing his stuff to real kung fu. I didn't refer to Green as a good representative of the style (well Lama is a small part of what he teaches, according to his website)...LOL It's like Raul Ortiz trying to tell people he was a good representative of mantis. *cough cough* People that do that make us all looked like smacked asses. :P Thanks for clarifying my point though.

    In Baltimore I remember everywhere I looked were black shorts with red trim...LOL

    I knew that CTS had others who were already teaching students and then also had his own classes as well. Those days were a blast and I don't think any of the organizations that popped up after 1996 were able to capture that talent and quality of event.

    By the time Chris and I fought he and I and CYH and CTS were friends and our schools got along very well. It was always easier to fight someone you didn't know and especially who you didn't like. Both of our schools fought very hard. Us because we were one of the smaller schools, you guys because you were one of the larger and always had people "gunning" for you.

    There were 3-4 of you upper level students I remember who were close to CTS...you, David, Chris and wasn't there a Steven?

    Yes, Steven Ventura as well. I actuall have quite a few pics from the event. I can look through them later in the week, if there are some good ones, I'll send them to you. I know I have ones of Chris sparring, possibly more than one match, so you might be in 'em!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lama Pai Sifu View Post
    Yes, Steven Ventura as well. I actuall have quite a few pics from the event. I can look through them later in the week, if there are some good ones, I'll send them to you. I know I have ones of Chris sparring, possibly more than one match, so you might be in 'em!
    Oh very cool...in my younger and more handsome days! heh

    My new wife is very disappointed that my ex got to spend those days with me. So if you have any from then, she'd probably love them.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by monji112000 View Post
    I would love to the clip got a link? who did he study under?
    http://www.greencloud.net/1120266.html

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Jeffoo;828167]Oh very cool...in my younger and more handsome days! heh

    My new wife is very disappointed that my ex got to spend those days with me. So if you have any from then, she'd probably love them.[/QUOT

    I would like to see some pictures too. Were you one of the competitors and what school were you from. How did all the students fair???

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