Kung Fu without Qi Gong: is it woth it?

[morrigan]

Hello everybody :)

Since I'm new to the forum and to the practice of Kung Fu, I'll introduce myself with a question (more will come) that's been bothering me. The thing is: I train the Ton Long style at a school here in Brasil which doesn't teach Qi Gong (at least until one gets to the black belt).

I bought books on Qi Gong and managed to know the basics, but it's hard to go on without a master to point me some directions.

I see most people here at the forum have some kind of combined training: Qi Gong+Kung Fu - and one seems to "complete" the other.

My question(s): Is it usual to begin the Qi Gong only when you're advanced at Kung Fu? If yes, why? If no, should I urgently look for another KF school? What am I loosing by not learning Qi Gong properly (right at the begining) in my KF practice?

I'd apreciate advices!
Thanx

[o]

From what I see, there are two different approaches in the training of qigong (Chi Kung) and kungfu. One is the method common in Shaolin kungfu. That is, one practices the martial aspect without any qi work for some years before ever advancing to the qigong part. And when one gets that far, the qi work is incorporated within the martial training (I think).

The other approach I've seen is with the Tai Chi (along with Bagua and Xingyi--the 3 main internal martial arts schools). I think alternate spellings are used for those schools. Anyway, with Tai Chi Chuan, one starts right away or soon after the start with the qi work (I think).

Sorry, but I don't know which one of these methods is better.

Just a note regarding practice of qigong and/or kungfu (or martial arts): You can practice them in the following ways:
1) Kungfu without any qigong incorporated within the system
2) Kungfu with qigong incorporated within the system (whether the qigong aspect starts at the beginning or after years of practice)
3) Qigong without any martial aspect
4) numbers 1 and 3 combined and practiced separately

I hope this helped

[o]

Numbers 2 and 3 (from the above post) should not be practiced together: They are incompatible. The reason being, one should not practice 2 different types of qigong at the same time. You can damage yourself internally. Just stick to one type and definitely practice under a good teacher and you'll be safe.

[GLW]

o,

you are MOSTLY right...

You CAN practice two methods of Qi gong provided they are complimentary. For example, Zhan Zhuang (standing Post) and Ba Duan Jin would be compatible. Still meditation and 18 Liangong postures would be workable.

However, if you are doing two methods that are incompatible, such as one type that tonifies a certain organ system and another that tends to cool down that same organ system, the best you can hope for is no results and the worst is really bad.

In short, if you mix things, you have to have a qualified teacher or already be an expert.

[Qiman]

Morrigan, Talk to your sifu and let him/her know how interested you are in learning. I had this sifu once who was a Hong Kong sparing and forms champion. He did very little Qigong and didn't teach us any at all. On the other hand, one of the other sifus was just ok at forms but had very good internal strength. He taught the Qigong. Explore your school first before jumping ship.

[joedoe]

Quite often you are practising Qigong without even knowing it :)

Some styles may not teach Qigong as a seperate thing, but it is an integral part of the forms.

Just my $0.02 worth

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[morrigan]

Thank you all for the advice!

o and GLW: I had NO idea that practicing different kinds of chikung could actually cause damage! The chikung I'll possibly learn when I get to the black belt is the combat chikung (don't know the name). And the one I was trying to catch the basics on is the Wudang Chikung (guess it's the healing chikung). What a risky practice!

Qiman: I have two sifus who teach different styles (both shaolin based), choy lay fut and ton long (my style), at the school. The first one is a rock because of the combat/strenghth chikung, but he never talks about it. The other is an acupuncturist and he knows all the energetic points in the human body (he is this "wow-where-did-the-pain-in-my-arm-go?" kinda guy) but he never talks about that either. Anyway, they're very nice people, so surely I could try your strategy and just let them know of my interest. This other Sifu, he taught you Chikung in separate from the KF classes?

ABandit: "Quite often you are practising Qigong without even knowing it" Really?!?!
"Some styles may not teach Qigong as a seperate thing, but it is an integral part of the forms". Come to think of that, I remember that during some classes, when we're learning katis, they usually give us hints on how we should breathe. That's it, isn't it? Great!

My new course of action: Talking to the Sifus about Chikung/Qigong and quitting my home practices until I'm sure they won't be in conflict with my masters' Chikung (though I intend to go on with meditation practices).

You've helped a lot!

[joedoe]

morrigan, yes that is what I am referring to. The breathing you are taught in your forms is Qigong.

Someone once asked my sifu to teach him Qigong. My sifu took him outside and told him to take a few deep breaths. Then he told him that he had learned Qigong :)

Glad to hear someone has actually gotten something out of this forum :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[morrigan]

I sense bitterness in your words despite the smilie... I´m glad to say that just by reading the threads I´ve learned lots of stuff... Including the fact that Not all martial artists are as wise people as you guys who answered me so clearly... So many freaks out there! It´s embarassing...

[joedoe]

No bitterness, just a little annoyance that most threads seem to get filled up with people throwing out challenges or just idiots trolling. It is nice to find the occasional thread where constructive conversation occurs.

So much of what goes on in the forum is about who's style is best etc. etc. etc. Get's a little boring sometimes when all you hear is people carrying on about how they can kick everyone else's arses. A lot of boasting, very little discussion sometimes :).

Having said that, the forum is a great place to find out new stuff.

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[fiercest tiger]

dont beleive him abandit is THE troll of trolls, just kidding!

i like the couple of breaths chi kung!! hehe

my sifu would say all hard kung fu is still chi kung and if you want it to be more internal just do it softer and with more concertration! :D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[morrigan]

Y'know, tiger, the thing on hard KF being Chikung is exactly what I found out when I asked one of my Sifus, yesterday.
He told me I could accelerate the process of enhancing internal internal energy with the breathing techniques, but training hard has the same result in the end!
Glad to have another point of view! :)

Well, people like Abandit always make a compensation for the bulls*#t posted by trolls. Wiseness vs stupidity (and let's hope the wise win)!!

[joedoe]

Awwwwww shucks morrigan. That's so nice of you to say that, but in reality I am a smart arse wanker with no idea about what wisdom is :).

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[prana]

kungfu is matter over mind. Improvement of nadi leads to unison of the 5 elements.

Chi Gong is training the mind and so mind over matter.

Indifferentiable, they all lead to the same place.

What is occupying that corpse you call 'I' ?

[honorisc]

Indifferentiable, they all lead to the same place.

Get to Heaven by going through Hel; or thay the way with clear skies and clouds? There might be a difference. It has been said to be the journey that matters. ...It is the journey, not the destination...

Very some such,perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.