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Thread: Ngo cho kun

  1. #16

    Question

    What forms encompass the style?

  2. #17
    There is a lot of forms, maybe hundreds of them, since the style is an agglomeration of Southern Tai Cho, White Crane, Monkey, Southern Luo Han, and Tat Mo Ki Kang. Each of the ancestor's forms can be practiced and carried over. There are also forms created by Sujo Chua or his descendants.

    The majority of Sujo Chua's students had already been masters in a Fujian style before asked to be a disciple of Sujo Chua. So, each of them could have also been teaching their respective forms.

    It was more likely that Sujo Chua taught more of the principles, such as embodied in the Sam Chien, the power generation (ngo ki liat), and methods, much more than the forms.

    There are documented 7 chien forms alone. Each of lineage carries different forms.
    However, there are common core forms taught such as: Sam Chien )3 battles), Ji Sip Kun (20x punch). Si Mun Pha Kak (4 gates 8 diagrams), and Song Sui (hard to translate, something like Double "Neutralizer").

    Yet, so far, I have never seen any identical executions of these forms from each lineage. Kong Han and Beng Kiam closely resemble each other, even in the forms' list, due to the aforementioned interactions.

    When this style's practitioners meet, usually they show each other's Sam Chien. Although looking rather simple, Sam Chien is the "thesis" of the practitioner's and the lineage's kung fu. There are sayings such that: "Learning Sam Chien in the beginning, until death learning Sam Chien," "Sam Chien is deeper than it looks," "From the core of Sam Chien will grow 108 branches," or "There should never be 3rd pair of ears while giving instructions for Sam Chien."

    Sam Chien, as executed by Alexander Cho, is very "textbook" and "fundamentally correct."

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
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    Wu ji

    Thank for all this information

    Does some players put more emphazize in one 5 core style ...I mean some more white crane ,some more tai cho and so on

    Steeve

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by wu-ji View Post
    There is a lot of forms, maybe hundreds of them, since the style is an agglomeration of Southern Tai Cho, White Crane, Monkey, Southern Luo Han, and Tat Mo Ki Kang. Each of the ancestor's forms can be practiced and carried over. There are also forms created by Sujo Chua or his descendants.

    The majority of Sujo Chua's students had already been masters in a Fujian style before asked to be a disciple of Sujo Chua. So, each of them could have also been teaching their respective forms.

    It was more likely that Sujo Chua taught more of the principles, such as embodied in the Sam Chien, the power generation (ngo ki liat), and methods, much more than the forms.

    There are documented 7 chien forms alone. Each of lineage carries different forms.
    However, there are common core forms taught such as: Sam Chien )3 battles), Ji Sip Kun (20x punch). Si Mun Pha Kak (4 gates 8 diagrams), and Song Sui (hard to translate, something like Double "Neutralizer").

    Yet, so far, I have never seen any identical executions of these forms from each lineage. Kong Han and Beng Kiam closely resemble each other, even in the forms' list, due to the aforementioned interactions.

    When this style's practitioners meet, usually they show each other's Sam Chien. Although looking rather simple, Sam Chien is the "thesis" of the practitioner's and the lineage's kung fu. There are sayings such that: "Learning Sam Chien in the beginning, until death learning Sam Chien," "Sam Chien is deeper than it looks," "From the core of Sam Chien will grow 108 branches," or "There should never be 3rd pair of ears while giving instructions for Sam Chien."

    Sam Chien, as executed by Alexander Cho, is very "textbook" and "fundamentally correct."
    Thanks for the information. Do you know much about Ngo Cho Kun outside of SE Asia?

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeve View Post
    Wu ji

    Thank for all this information

    Does some players put more emphazize in one 5 core style ...I mean some more white crane ,some more tai cho and so on

    Steeve
    You are more than welcome. I am just sharing information.

    With a risk of overgeneralizing it:

    Quanzhou lineages use Tai Cho core since a lot of them are descendat, or somewhat influenced, by Liem Kiu Ji (Some calls him Lim Kiu Lu), who was a Tai Cho master prior meeting Chua Giok Beng.

    Xiamen is heavily influenced by White Crane since Sim Yang Tek was a White Crane master prior meeting Chua.

    In my very personal opinion, Ngo Cho Ho Yang Kun is more of a thesis than a style, very much like Bruce Lee's fighting methods. Respectively, it allows the practitioners to adapt the principles to be suitable for his/her frame. Even the stances vary widely within lineages in the style and within persons in the lineages.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by The Xia View Post
    Thanks for the information. Do you know much about Ngo Cho Kun outside of SE Asia?
    You are very welcome, again I am just sharing information.

    Ngo Cho Kun is very much centered in SE Asia and Fujian. Any representations outside those areas are usually just extensions from those 2 regions.

    It is also a small circle. Although we might not know each representation personally, it is easy to check who is who. If you are at a particular location or would like to know about a particular person, I might know or can ask about the person.

  7. #22
    Steeeve:

    I see that you are training with Uncle Bill. He is a great master. I saw some of his and his disciples' clips. Ngo Cho Kun (at least the one that I know) and Uncle Bill's martial arts share identical major principles. Of course, there minor differences and also power generation methods might vary.

    One example will be in the sa khak ho (triangular steps). I see that Uncle Bill is big in it from the way he moves. Xiamen lineages also emphasize this.

    Quanzhou lineages, especially Lo Ban Teng and Kong Han, prefer tank-like direct approach (although it doesn't eliminate the side stepping).

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by wu-ji View Post
    You are very welcome, again I am just sharing information.

    Ngo Cho Kun is very much centered in SE Asia and Fujian. Any representations outside those areas are usually just extensions from those 2 regions.

    It is also a small circle. Although we might not know each representation personally, it is easy to check who is who. If you are at a particular location or would like to know about a particular person, I might know or can ask about the person.
    Do you know about Ngo Cho Kun in North America? I know there is Sifu Bonifacio Lim in NJ. I've heard he's excellent. But other then him, I can't think of anyone else I know of. I can see how it's very much centered in SE Asia and Fujian.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Xia View Post
    Do you know about Ngo Cho Kun in North America? I know there is Sifu Bonifacio Lim in NJ. I've heard he's excellent. But other then him, I can't think of anyone else I know of. I can see how it's very much centered in SE Asia and Fujian.
    http://www.konghanusa.com/

  10. #25
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    Location
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    Wu Jia

    Im not a student of Uncle Bill ....but I was a student of one of his senior here in Canada.....I trained with Uncle when he came to Canada for visits every years....in fact I was his driver here

    In kuntao silat and also serak silat or tjimande the entry is the footwork ....the triangle principles ...whats we call langkas tiga...other style used this pattern also like the filipino MA(pekiti tirsia I talk the style I know)

    In fact Uncle Bill used mostly the pakua chang ....different of the chinese pakua but some similaritie....I think the Kuntao style of SE Asia keep the fighting or warrior way....

    The triangle step is sometime very subtle ...look like a direct entry in straight line

    I agree the jurus of silat look a lot like the Ngo cho kun ....

    Nice to talk with you

    Steeve

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Laukarbo View Post
    Thanks Laukarbo. A question for you. Being from a Hung Gar background, how do you like crosstraining in Ngo Cho Kune?

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by The Xia View Post
    Do you know about Ngo Cho Kun in North America? I know there is Sifu Bonifacio Lim in NJ. I've heard he's excellent. But other then him, I can't think of anyone else I know of. I can see how it's very much centered in SE Asia and Fujian.
    I posted this list in a previous posting above:


    It is not easy to find instructions in North America. These are some of the list that I would recommend (but are not limited to):

    - Kong Han group has Daniel Kun in Vancouver, BC; Jeffrey Yang in Canton, OH; and Milo Ong in LA, CA.
    - Beng Kiam has Christopher Rickett in San Diego. However, he doesn't advertise in NCK teaching. He is also a very reputable master of Filipino arts.
    - There is someone from Liem Tjoei Kang's lineage in Southern California area. However, this person prefers to go dormant for now and does not wish to teach.

    Recommendations are based on personal acquaintance or recommendations of acquaintances.

    There are, of course, other teachers from different lineages. However, I don't know about them enough to recommend their instructions. These include (there could be more):

    - Bonifacio Lim (Beng Kiam)- NJ area
    - Ben Asuncion (Beng Kiam) - LA, CA area
    - Mark Wiley (Bengkiam) - CO area if I am not mistaken.
    - Jose Parman (I forgot) - San Jose, CA area
    - John Graham (Chee Kim Tong) - Mobile, AL (more of his students in AL area)
    - Kenneth Lim in VA area. He advertises more as a Wing Chun and Hokkian Eng Chun styles, but one of his teachers is from Gui In Lam lineage.
    - Kam Lee (A Malaysian lineage that I forgot) in FL
    - Lo Ban Teng group as represented by Lo Siauw Gok's lineage is ready to start teaching in USA. Lo Hak Lun, Lo Siauw Gok's son states that hopefully it will happen in less than a year.

    It is unethical for me to comment on Bonifacio Lim's skills since I am from a different lineage and I do not know him personally. However, I can say that Alex Cho represents the "standard" of Beng Kiam. So, any good masters from Beng Kiam should move similarly to him. His videos are publicly available for purchase (I am not commercially related to him and don't benefit from the purchase). You can just google "alex cho ngo cho kun" to find them.

    Daniel Kun, Bonifacio Lim, Ben Asuncion, and John Graham just met in Alabama in September. Kam Lee and the dormant person were also invited, but could not make it.
    Last edited by wu-ji; 12-10-2007 at 10:30 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Xia View Post
    Thanks Laukarbo. A question for you. Being from a Hung Gar background, how do you like crosstraining in Ngo Cho Kune?
    no problem,
    I have to say I still learn,practise and teach Hung Kuen...
    but since I live in Manila/Chinatown I have a big access to Ngo Cho Kun..
    I was really curious about the style..to ur question I just recently started and learned Sam chien and my limited knowledge about ngo cho kun only tells me so far that the style really compliments hung fist. Its a good addition for short distance fighting,and learning short power generation...
    Btw,I think sam chien is not really compareble to Tit sin kuen..feels very different but like I said I just learned sam chien and its all new to me..all in all I think that both styles dont bite each other

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Laukarbo View Post
    Btw,I think sam chien is not really compareble to Tit sin kuen..feels very different but like I said I just learned sam chien and its all new to me..all in all I think that both styles dont bite each other
    Tian Te Lin Chien will feel more similar to Tit Sin Kuen. They actually share the same elements and purpose. The Philippines lineages don't emphasize that much pressure and tension as compared to Wong Fei Hung's Hung Gar lineages. Some lineages, like the Lo Ban Teng lineages from Indonesia have strong emphasis on the tension.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wu-ji View Post
    Tian Te Lin Chien will feel more similar to Tit Sin Kuen. They actually share the same elements and purpose. The Philippines lineages don't emphasize that much pressure and tension as compared to Wong Fei Hung's Hung Gar lineages. Some lineages, like the Lo Ban Teng lineages from Indonesia have strong emphasis on the tension.

    thanks for the info...
    very interesting.

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