Swinging Arms

[madhusudan]

Has anyone heard of the qigong movement of gently swinging the arms back and forth being done with a bit more force, but still relaxed, as a form of body conditioning? Does anyone practice this?

Just heard about it from a tai chi / hsing yi practitioner and would like to hear other opinions and experiences. Thanks.

[mawali]

It is a general purpose conditioning flexibility 'exercise' while also teaching to empty one side and fill the other as inthe veing of what is called 'internal'.

[madhusudan]

Thanks for the reply. To clarify, I am inquiring about hitting the body more forcefully with the arms as they are swung, in order to toughen/condition the body. Anyone do this, or know about it as a practice?

[mawali]

Some pai da routine hit certain area of he body (near known 'points') as part of their conditioning so it still is in the realm of tonification, body conditioning etc based on disease state or condition. Hopefully, one is not blindly following a routine but being aware of how the body feels after said routine.

[jdhowland]

Here's a lama style version of this:

From che sahn, instead of holding the waist let the hands swing so that the leading arm rotates inwardly causing the back of the hand to strike the opposite kidney area. The following palm stretches around the chest and strikes its opposite suprascapular region (where three meridians converge). As you whip the body from side to side the arms alternate high and low positions. Unlike normal che sahn where the head is isolated and remains looking forward while the body turns, in this the head leads the movement looking from side to side. To further martial aspects of the practice you should focus your eyes on a point in front of you as soon as possible.


Another version that I have seen other schools do as well is without body rotation. The arms are extended to the sides palms up, then cross each other while the forearms are pronated. The lower hand strikes under the armpit with the tiger's mouth while the upper hand strikes the opposite deltoid area before rotating outward again to open the chest.

[madhusudan]

Awesome. Thanks, John!

I will now resume beating myself.

[jdhowland]

I will now resume beating myself.

Of course.

Be careful. This is not body toughening per se. The cross-body contact is important to stimulate the nerves.

There are also many variations using a stick. Not rattan but hardwood flat in cross section. Something like a modern version of a vajra "cudgel."

[madhusudan]

I see what you mean. So, hitting the body is done a little harder than in the qigong exercise, that one can see videos of and articles about on the web, but not overly. I'll take it easy with that, but experiment with it.

The stick hitting is intriguing, but sounds too technical to attempt on my own.

Thanks, as always, for your generous sharing of information.

[taai gihk yahn]

in the yik gan ging heih gung I practice, this is called yuet tin chu - swinging the heavenly pivot; the interesting thing is that u rn't swinging the arms in large arcs, but r keeping it a bit tighter - hard to explain, easy to see - what is "unique" about this is that it starts low, works up high and goes back down, with some other more specific directions in terms of where u hit at different levels; this is evidently supposed to be done 500x up and 500x down (most I've ever done was 100 up and 100 down); there r also two fullow up sequences that r supposedly important afterwards (one directed towards working the hands, another core breathing and stability);

I never practiced it as an iron body method, more for health (from a contemporary physiological perpective there is a good amount of value to this practice);

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1210144]in the yik gan ging heih gung I practice, this is called yuet tin chu - swinging the heavenly pivot; the interesting thing is that u rn't swinging the arms in large arcs, but r keeping it a bit tighter - hard to explain, easy to see - what is "unique" about this is that it starts low, works up high and goes back down, with some other more specific directions in terms of where u hit at different levels...QUOTE]

Waiiit a minute...I've done this before but I can't remember who taught it. That's a very good exercise. I think even Shinshin Toitsu Aikido has a version of it as part of the ki curriculum. I seem to recall that Tohei sensei was interested in Chinese arts and used his exposure to add to his ki concepts.

Thanks for the input, TGY. Do you or your sifu practice meridian tapping?

[taai gihk yahn]

Waiiit a minute...I've done this before but I can't remember who taught it. That's a very good exercise. I think even Shinshin Toitsu Aikido has a version of it as part of the ki curriculum. I seem to recall that Tohei sensei was interested in Chinese arts and used his exposure to add to his ki concepts.

I think that there was ongoing "exchange" btw Chinese and Japanese teachers to a much more significant extent than most people realize, lol; for example, my former sifu was of the opinion that the taiji sword form he learned / taught was markedly influenced by Japanese sword (I forget his source for this); well, whatever, just interesting to consider these things;

Thanks for the input, TGY. Do you or your sifu practice meridian tapping?

not sure what that is - I mean, in several qigong I learned u contact specific points either via finger tip or slapping; there is one sequence he created that he called Dance of the Web where u trace out the entire meridian system on ur body which was pretty cool (I'd have to dig deep into the memory banks to remember that, lol); he also treats people using a dim yut (dian xue?) protocol he learned some years ago when he went did a TCM hospital internship in Guangzhou for a month - it's pretty interesting, esp the part where u briefly seal off various arterial points and then release them abruptly...

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1210224]I think that there was ongoing "exchange" btw Chinese and Japanese teachers to a much more significant extent than most people realize, lol; for example, my former sifu was of the opinion that the taiji sword form he learned / taught was markedly influenced by Japanese sword (I forget his source for this); well, whatever, just interesting to consider these things;
...not sure what that is - I mean, in several qigong I learned u contact specific points either via finger tip or slapping; there is one sequence he created that he called Dance of the Web where u trace out the entire meridian system on ur body ...QUOTE]



Yes, that's the kind of thing I meant--not targeting specific points but mapping out the basic lines. I learned from a Chen Taiji practitioner who used a stick "ruler" to tap the meridians.

Not surprised about the Sino-Japanese exchange thing. There were some attempts to use Japanese technique in the revitalization of miao dao technique.

Our Choy Lei Faht has a noi gong sequence in which the hands slap the sides of the thighs. It sends a nice zing along a branch of the peroneal that maps out a striking point as well as conditioning the area. Where the middle fingernail stops is right where you want to place a knee or roundhouse shin kick.


.

[madhusudan]

I tap my whole body each morning without really concentrating on any specific points. Looking for info on it, I came upon this video:

http://www.ehow.com/video_4942052_ta...n-tapping.html

I added parts of what he shows near the end to what I was already doing. I like it and it feels good to wake the body up this way in the AM.

[Robinhood]

Swinging the arms also are supposed to develop the body spring, if your energy drops all the way to the floor, then it will bounce back, this is what makes the arms start swinging.

[taai gihk yahn]

Swinging the arms also are supposed to develop the body spring, if your energy drops all the way to the floor, then it will bounce back, this is what makes the arms start swinging.

this is correct; the "trick" is how to allow the vertical "spring" force to change planes to horizontal and coronal through the ribs, shoulders and forearm interosseous membranes without impeding the flow of ground reaction force; if u do it correctly, u can ride the spring throughout the entire exercise;

the other important aspect is how conclude the practice: u can't just stop, u have to slowly dissipate the energy u have built up;