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Thread: Biu Sau

  1. #1

    Biu Sau

    Hi: I've been thinking about what kind of exercises I could do to strenghten my fingers in order to make my Biu Sau stronger. It's easy to strike the throat and similar "soft" places, but what if I wanted to strike harder places of the body? Any recommendatons. Please limit yourselves to "exercise examples". Thanks

  2. #2
    far be it from me to critisize but seriously WTF!!!!!!!! what the hell is wrong with using fists like everyone else ???? how the hell are you going to toughen your fingers up enough to do any significant damage to any hard areas of the body, hell even if you subscribe to 't3h d34d1y eye poke' method of fighting you will appreciate that if you miss your fingers are likely to be broken on the skull, i personally would recommend that any training time you might think of devoting to 'finger conditioning' would be better spent doing some bag work or improving your timing/distancing/body unity-core exersizes or pad work, infact hell i will go as far as to say practice your ability to pee in a straight line before you devote any serious time to that crap/waste of time

    of course this is (obviously) just my opinion and if you would care to point me in the direction of any hard evidence as to both the effectiveness of this method of striking and a sensible/safe way to train it and i might be convinced.... oh and before you even say it yes i agree a f*king good poke to the eye is a debilitating attack but it is such a low percentage move i personally wouldnt bother wasting training time when i could be training something both more effective and higher percentage (like a bloody good right hander ) oh yeah also go google/youtube yugi nakai and see for yourself how after suffering a terrible eye injury he still went on to win the fight

  3. #3
    Id practice accuracy not toughness...if your throwng it ..imo..its to be done super fast and right to the point not ooops my iron finger strike missed

    like a pole fight all to a point and back to do it again if need be

    hang a sheet of papper in a doorway and try to poke/tear a hole in an X on the paper or 2 x' as eyes
    with SPEED ..or put a candle flame out with same finger strike...try with unlit candle until you get the idea or you burn house down
    Last edited by k gledhill; 12-14-2007 at 11:37 AM.

  4. #4
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    Hello r4cy,

    I would say be careful because there are said to be meridians in the fingers which when damaged can affect other parts of the body, for example the eyes and vision.

    However, having said that, my Sifu trains by peircing his fingers into a bucket of loose sand. I guess you could progress into gravel etc, but I am not sure that it is needed in todays society. I would tend to agree with k gledhill and focus more on accuracy.

    FWIW I did see people in Germany in WT who were able to place their fingers against a board sometimes a 4X4, and break the board by extending their arms. Not sure what training they did to achieve this but it was impressive. Of course, a lot of breaking is impressive but not always practical.
    Peace,

    Dave

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  5. #5
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    Biu Sao is using the bridge, not necessarily the fingertips to attack. You would strike with the bridge at extremely close range.

    The fingerjab is just one application of Biu Sao, but not the only. As for fingerstrikes, holding your hand properly at the point of impact is what counts.

    Hope this helps.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by r4cy View Post
    Hi: I've been thinking about what kind of exercises I could do to strenghten my fingers in order to make my Biu Sau stronger. It's easy to strike the throat and similar "soft" places, but what if I wanted to strike harder places of the body? Any recommendatons. Please limit yourselves to "exercise examples". Thanks
    Considering that the only people I have seen use finger strikes effectively in real fights and full contact sparring, had "deformed" fingers, perhaps you would be wise to NOT use them, I don't think the pros outweight the cons in this type of "forging".
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    Biu Sao is using the bridge, not necessarily the fingertips to attack. You would strike with the bridge at extremely close range.

    The fingerjab is just one application of Biu Sao, but not the only. As for fingerstrikes, holding your hand properly at the point of impact is what counts.

    Hope this helps.
    Hello Robert,

    So by this explanation a Fak Sau is an example of using Bui Sau? When referring to the "bridge" is there a specific part of the arm brought into play? Seems like you could use the forearm and the wrist and each would involve a different type of both contact and energy so I would be curious as to what differs or if the tem Biu Sau refers to both? What is the difference between striking with the forearm, wrist or hand/fingers/palm and which would be considered Biu Sau and why?

    Not trying to be insulting but seems like you are indicating that Biu Sau is more of a concept relying on bridge contact rather than a specific technique. Kind of like the three familes of Taun/Fook/Bong which each gives rise to various techniques under each "families or seeds" concept. If this is the case then perhaps we can identify the shapes or techniques specific to a Biu Sau.
    Peace,

    Dave

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    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  8. #8
    Well, I've seen dudes from a system called Pangai Noon Kung Fu ( AKA Uechi Ryu Karate) this is a southern style of kung fu and this people can really strike with the tips of their fingers. Not only the ones from the hand but with the feet as well.Here is a clip showing it. The thing is that I'd like to know if there is a progressive way to achieve this. Iron palm training has similar progressive methods, I'm looking to do so with the fingers .

  9. #9
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    I just like to say I know someone who just a few weeks ago lost about 75% of his vision after hitting a marble slab with his finger tips,so it's no joke if you train incorrectly you can do serous damage.His vision is slowly coming back after some treatment. I myself only hit soft targets with the fingers and hard targets with the fist or palm.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by r4cy View Post
    Well, I've seen dudes from a system called Pangai Noon Kung Fu ( AKA Uechi Ryu Karate) this is a southern style of kung fu and this people can really strike with the tips of their fingers. Not only the ones from the hand but with the feet as well.Here is a clip showing it. The thing is that I'd like to know if there is a progressive way to achieve this. Iron palm training has similar progressive methods, I'm looking to do so with the fingers .
    I used to do some Uechi and I'll say this: IMO that kind of conditioning the hand, in order to break stuff, like boards, bricks or whatever is a complete waste of time AND the tool (nukite) was never intended to be used as such, and certainly not on hard targets.. There are a couple of top "masters" in that style that have trained their hands to break stuff and IMO this is yet another way of taking the focus off of functionality of the style and instead getting everyone ooooing and ahhhhing at the feats of doing this kind of asinine BS..

    There is nothing wrong with conditioning the hands and arms, legs, etc, whatever but THAT kind of conditioning IMO is for those who have nothing better to focus on; know not what the original purpose of the tool was and have a great need to impress the layman to keep customers coming through the door. Not to mention it's a great way to screw up your hands, if not now then later (arthritis) as have some of those "master" guys who IMO can't fight worth a crap, and have funny looking hands as a result...

    As Robert said, the technique is not intended for this kind of thing, it's about the bridge.. WCK uses this tool to gain a connection, take space, bridge, jam, weave energy, etc...

    You'd be much better off doing some basic conditioning and learning how to apply the techniques of the system in a realistic manner--something the finger brick breakers have given up long ago...
    Last edited by YungChun; 12-15-2007 at 05:19 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
    I just like to say I know someone who just a few weeks ago lost about 75% of his vision after hitting a marble slab with his finger tips,so it's no joke if you train incorrectly you can do serous damage.His vision is slowly coming back after some treatment. I myself only hit soft targets with the fingers and hard targets with the fist or palm.
    --I've heard this described as one of the dangers of trying to condition the fingers in the past. Most people would scoff at such an idea. Interesting to hear of someone that has actually seen it happen. Of note...there is a entire system of Korean acupuncture that uses points on the hands and fingers. Just as auricular therapy (ear acupuncture) sees the whole body represented in the ear, and foot reflexology sees the whole body reflected on the sole of the foot, this system of acupuncture sees the whole body reflected in the hand.

  12. #12
    I didnt want to start the previous post I made with you may go blind but the only guy I know who used to stab his fingers into ball bearings ...wears glasses

    Bil sao is like tut sao, only under the bridge to recover the line from underneath, no mystery...bil gee is mainly recovery in unorthodox situations , using the same ideas , only they are not a prefered method for the obvious potential to be trapped ourselves . but its a seamless part of the whole...

    if you concentrate on the [bil] finger , you will miss all that heavenly glory
    Last edited by k gledhill; 12-15-2007 at 08:09 AM.

  13. #13
    First of all - bil sao is the thrusting blocking hand.

    But bil jee is the finger strike that can be used as an attack - coming at the end of a bil sao move.

    And my instuctor, William Cheung, has always taught that the way to protect the fingers against injury when using bil jee is to change the direction of the strike at the moment of impact.

    Exactly the same principle used in fencing in order to protect the foil tip from not breaking upon impact.

    That's why you see the 4 different directions used in the Bil Jee form: left, right, down, up.

    All this said, I agree with the earlier poster that it's better to focus upon punching (and to a lessor degree palm strikes) - as bil jee strikes require pinpoint accuracy to soft targets (ie.- eyes, neck, throat, under the arm pit) to be effective.
    Last edited by Ultimatewingchun; 12-15-2007 at 08:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatewingchun View Post
    And my instuctor, William Cheung, has always taught that the way to protect the fingers against injury when using bil jee is to change the direction of the strike at the moment of impact.

    Exactly the same principle used in fencing in order to protect the foil tip from not breaking upon impact.

    That's why you see the 4 different directions used in the Bil Jee form: left, right, down, up.
    ..... this is the same for me in a way. Although im not a TWC man.

    When im applying Bui ,the hinge action at my wrist is all important for the finger power, like a mini stabbing action on its own. This is the offensive part of the action. The defencive side to the coin is using the forearm to block certain actions.

    Like Vic said there is....Bui Jee...Bui Sao... but i mostly see them as one though.

    While the 4 different directions in the form teaches me direction in striking it also is training this wrist power in isolation, cause my elbow is straight in the form only working the wrist.
    I take it apon myself to train the action outside the 'form' in a dynamic setting ie Luk / Gor Sao to add body and elbow force to it.

    IMO its only ever a follow up action. Its not launched first as a strike at the eyes but would be more like if i landed a good leg kick followed by some punches to the head maintaining my opponents focus on covering then if the target offers itself id take it.

    As far as strengthening - ive sprained my fingers so much in the early days of VT sparring, from like my Wu clashing forearms in fast and furious Luk Sao i think there as hard as im gunna get them...which isnt all that hard for being able to injure a guy.

    I have seen monks bashing fingers on horizontal bags, then swinging there arms around alot to make the blood go to the tips, rinse and repeat......
    But ive never been a believer in that sort of training....

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  15. #15
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    I've heard this described as one of the dangers of trying to condition the fingers in the past. Most people would scoff at such an idea. Interesting to hear of someone that has actually seen it happen.
    Not to call anyone a liar, but I remain skeptical. Surely every keyboard warrior in the universe would be stumbling around bumping into things from the incessant pounding of the fingertips on the keys. Are there any scientifically verifiable studies of significant statistical populations, or just the usual anecdotal stuff?

    I've done my share of thrusting my fingers into sand, uncooked beans, and gravel. It's also supposed to be good to grab and clench the fists through the material. I need glasses to read small print in bad light, but at 53 that's to be expected.

    That said, I've been told "iron palm drives you mad," and seeing its effect on some of my more committed (no pun intended) sihings who undertook the 100 day program, I tend to agree. I'm not being a smartass here, some of them had weird stuff happen.

    I think it's possible to take a lot of these things too far and damage yourself. Just hasten slowly and take care of yourself.
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