Just thought I would throw some ideas out on Chi Sao and see what you guys think. By Chi Sao "platform", I am referring to the basic rolling motion that is the foundation for launching various techniques.
In my experience I have seen and practiced two such platforms. The first I will refer to as "Luk Sao." It is the rolling platform found in Yip Man and Yuen Kay Shan WCK. The other I will refer to as "Poon Sao." It is the rolling platform found in WCK systems from Ku Lo village and other parts of the mainland. Note...the way I am using the terms is not necessarily accurate or consistent amongst all WCK families. I am only using this terminology to make discussing the two forms of Chi Sao easier.
For those unfamiliar with WCK other than from the various Yip Man branches, here is a link to Sifu Gary's website where he has posted several clips of him and his students doing Chi Sao using the Poon Sao platform with Master Fung Keung of Pin Sun WCK.
http://www.shaolinjeeshinwingchun.co...lo_san_lo.html
First, my observation is that the Luk Sao platform is specific to WCK, whereas the Poon Sao platform is more generic and can be found in other southern gung fu styles. I used to work out on occasion with a friend that was a 6th degree black belt in Ed Parker's Kenpo. He had been taught a Kenpo version of Chi Sao that basically used the Poon Sao platform.
My second observation, having trained both versions of Chi Sao, is that not only is the Luk Sao version more specific to WCK and the Poon Sao version more generic...the Luk Sao version is more specialized and the Poon Sao version is more generalized. In other words, the Luk Sao platform tends to be its own "game" apart from more realistic application. There are lots of things taught to make one successful within the confines of Luk Sao that don't really apply if the opponent is not also rolling with the same Bong/Tan/Fook structure. There is a certain amount of "gamesmanship" involved. Chi Sao becomes a whole activity in and of itself apart from self-defense or fighting.
On the other hand, the Poon Sao roll is less "structured" and more just pure sticking as a way to start an exchange from contact. Its essentially just rolling the arms in circles like you are cleaning the glass of a window in front of you. There is less "gamesmanship" because there is less structure (or lack thereof) to exploit. Since it is less specialized, it also seems to me that it is more likely to lead to technique that will transfer more directly over to real application. Since you aren't looking to exploit poor positioning on the part of your opponent/partner as much, it doesn't matter whether your partner is a WCK guy or not. It will allow a WCK guy to cross hands with a Mantis guy, White Crane guy...or in my case...even a Kenpo guy!You can also teach it pretty readily to someone that doesn't do WCK so that you have common ground on which to train things together.
A third observation....the energy in Luk Sao tends to be up and down with forward pressure and a 1, 2 count. The energy in Poon Sao tends to be side to side, softer, and more flowing.
A final observation...having done both, it seems to me likely that the more specialized Luk Sao platform evolved from the generalized Poon Sao platform as more structure was introduced. Its easy to see/feel how the upper arc of the circling motion would become a Bong Sao as the energy shifted from side to side to up and down.
Any comments or further observations are welcome. Has anyone else trained both Chi Sao platforms?
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Originally Posted by KPM
