Petition against Chinese Occupation in Tibet

[Kung Lek]

Ok, here is a quote from the Dalai Lama himself.
In adition to this, it is important to note that economic changes have been for the better in tibet.

But, i find it curious that the Dalai Lama never speaks of why China came in to the country but that he is willing to let them control the economy and political structure of the country.
I also find it curious that a person with tibetan buddhist beliefs would find it necessary to run away?
Fear of his own life? That thinking doesn't fit wiht the precepts of Tibetan Buddhism. The cause would be 1000 times stronger if he had become martyred through imprisonment or execution. Yet, fear seems to be the motivator and it shouldn't.

You can find many resources on teh inyternet about the Dalai Lama and his views. He is of course peaceful and wise, but still, reality is reality no matter how one glosses it up eh?

Anyway, here is what the "God King" of tibet has to say.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is with this realization that in the early seventies I discussed and decided with my senior officials the main points of my "Middle Way Approach". Consequently, I opted for a resolution of the Tibet issue, which does not call for the independence of Tibet or its separation from China.

I firmly believe that it is possible to find a political solution that ensures the basic rights & freedoms of the Tibetan people within the framework of the People's Republic of China. My primary concern is the survival and preservation of Tibet's unique spiritual heritage, which is based on compassion and non-violence. And, I believe it is worthwhile & beneficial to preserve this heritage since it continues to remain relevant in our present-day world.

[/quote]

As non-participants. I think it is best tolook at all the angles before taking a side in the issue even if you don't like communism of the prc.
It goes beyond the usurping of a nation, far beyond that.
I have been following this throughout the entirty of my life and even I have reservations about both sides views and actions.

Btw, kundun is gratuitous propoganda and is a "story" which favours the political views of the Free Tibet Organization. Nicely shot piece of film though.

peace

Kung Lek

[joedoe]

Like who?

Kung Lek never came back to let us know why China originally invaded Tibet, so I don't understand all the issues. Anyone else know why China invaded?

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[joedoe]

Apologies Kung Lek - you must have beaten me to the post :).

Here are my thoughts on this:

Quote:
In adition to this, it is important to note that economic changes have been for the better in tibet.

I don't believe economic gains are the be all and end all in this world. I have a BEc. and I believe that I mostly wasted 3 years of my life studying economics. The problem with governments nowadays is that their focus is not on the people, but on economic growth.

I accept that economic growth is an important part of maintaining a country in a responsible manner, however I believe the role of government is to provide a structure for the people (be that in providing infrastructure, law and order, military protection, whatever), and assistance when required. I don't believe governments do this most of the time. The social impact of government policy is often ignored on the path to economic growth.

I think that Communism has worked for China (to a certain degree), and on my two visits to China the people seem to accept Communism. I guess they don't have much choice :).

As far as Tibet goes, I still don't know why China seized control. My thoughts are that if the Dalai Lama did not leave Tibet, he would have been martyred, but I don't think he would better serve the cause of his country as a martyr. I think that preserving Tibet's spiritual heritage is a worthy cause to fight for.

Having said all that, if it were possible to resolve the conflict without either party 'losing out' then I guess that would be ideal.

I'll stop my rant now :)

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[Destrous9]

If the thread increases awareness for a few people, it had succeeded, IMHO.

"To best condition the body you must first ignore completely how the body looks and focus rather on how it feels.

To condition the mind you must ignore how things appear or seem and focus rather on what they truly are."

[Kung Lek]

Hi-

Ok don't get me wrong here, I don't have a very good view of communism and I do not believe it "works" for anyone. People are individuals and communism strips this away. The communism of china is more totalitarian than marxist no matter how they do it up.

The situation for your average indigenous tibetan is not good, for chinese in tibet it is not to bad at all.

I do not have the answer as to why china invaded and usurped the Dalai Lama. I am curious also because this has never been made clear to me by positions on either side.

what I do know is that many tibetans left with the dalai lama and now live in northern india.
The governments of the rest of the world never really did anything about it and apperently the dalai lama does not intend too.

spirituality lives within the individual and not within an institution and its trappings.

peace

Kung Lek

[Fish of Fury]

why did china invade?
heard some cool theories (hidden oil fields etc. etc.) but i do know that they seem to persecute many peoples in out lying areas (incl. some remote areas of western china where the locals are sort of half chinese, half russian...can't remember what they're called...i'm basing this on Amnesty International research)
maybe it's an "ethnic cleansing" program (?)

_________________________"I never drive faster than i can see...other than that...it's all in the reflexes" Jack Burton

[joedoe]

Does anyone actually know what China's reason for invading was?

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[monkey mind]

The balance of power in greater central asia has been more or less in flux for thousands of years. Why did China invade Tibet? From a historical point of view it looks like a "natural" reassertion of Chinese power in the west follwoing a period of internal turmoil. Why was this invasion uniquely cruel? Because it combined a centuries old racial and ethnic antipathy with ultra-radical Maoist fervor. Remember that the Dalai Lama remained in Tibet for about 9 years after the invasion. It was only when the Cultural Revolution warmed up and the harassment became extreme that he fled. I can't see how we can question the Dalai Lama too much on this. Was it skillful means for him to leave? Was he, as a teenager, afraid not only for his own life but for the traditions he represented? He has said that this was the hardest thing he ever did, and I think we should respect that.

We should also understand that Tibet was bound to have a rocky entry into the modern world. Like many places around the world Tibet had 20th century economics, technology, and geopolitics foisted on it, but because of its isolation and feudal/theocratic government, Tibet was uniquely poised for a difficult transition. The Dalai Lama has also said as much. Still, that doesn't mean that because the Chinese have accomplished this transition with some benefits (on their own terms: economic, political), that we should overlook their outrageous treatment of Tibetans. I've spent some time with Tibetan refugees in Nepal, and it's hard to deny the incredible suffering of these people. For the Dalai Lama to insist on full independence for Tibet would only ensure more harassment for those still in Tibet, that much is clear. Thus it seems most reasonable and compassionate for him to search for some kind of compromise, with a degree of autonomy for Tibet. If a "Free Tibet" movement in the west can help put pressure on the Chinese to allow some measure of dignity for Tibetans in their own land, then I'm for it. Plus "Cultural Autonomy for Tibet" doesn't fit as easily on a bumper sticker.

Peace

[Kung Lek]

Hi...again

Your points are valid. I do however think that for people of the west protesting chinese occupation is a little "misplaced" though the sentiment is good and correct.

In the country I live in, the indigenous people have been treated very badly and are treated badly in view of the social norms.

The native peoples of canada have been eating a raw deal for centuries. But it seems because of the global "perception" of canada, that we as a society here are doing nothing so bad.

This is not the truth by a longshot. Our prisons are filled wiht native americans even moreso than non-native nationals. We relegate them to "reserves" which are more often than not useless land areas that have little in the way of future potential. we throw money at them to get rid of the sense of guilt for the people to actually work at integration of the whole of society.

Overall, they are treated badly in most social circumstances and many of them are turned away from jobs because of hte fact they are native and maybe they speak english a bit differently or maybe their cultural background isn't appealing enough to the standard non-native canadian.

It is a major problem that has still to this day not been resolved. there have been some minor inroads, but we still segregate the native peoples of canada wiht reserves, seperate government rules, the department of indian affairs and many other government departments that seek to keep the native people of canada seperate from the mainstream as opposed to integration and retention of cultural practices.

Canada is a poor example of human rights in many ways, as is the united states and many other first and second world countries.

In essence, it is my feeling that for any canadian of descent other than native to be crying "human rights" on the government of china or any country is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

Think globally, Act locally.

peace

Kung Lek

[monkey mind]

More valid points (is anybody keeping score?) Indeed, we tend to cry out against sensational human rights abuses in faraway places while all too often ignoring the more grinding and constant if less flashy continuation of racism and oppression at home. We should act locally to help foster reconciliation and mutual respect among various groups where we live. But we should also think globally. And if we consider ourselves citizens of a global village, then we should feel obligated to speak out against the ongoing abuse suffered by any of our sisters and brothers around the globe. I don't see this as an either/or proposition. Many of us live in glass houses, shouldn't we be throwing stones at all of them, our own included?

[joedoe]

I agree. Most countries have a bad history of human rights abuses. Australia has a terrible one.

As much I am ashamed of Australia's past, and even of the ongoing problem we have with reconciling our modern society with the indigenous population, I still feel that it is my right to speak out about what I feel is wrong.

I don't know what the reasons for China's invasion of Tibet are, but it seems wrong. I know why the Taliban destroyed the Buddhist statues, and why they go around treating their women so badly, but that seems wrong too. So I speak out against those actions.

Australia has in the past had a huge whaling industry. Does that mean we should not speak out against whaling operations conducted by Japan and Norway?

Guns don't kill people, I kill people

[tanglangman]

I don't have a very good view of communism and I do not believe it "works" for anyone.

It seems to be doing ok in Cuba.

[Kung Lek]

tanglangman- when was the last time you were in cuba?

it really isn't in that great a shape.

peace

Kung Lek

[tanglangman]

My Parent have just returned form Cuba and from what they tell me it is doing ok. From what I gather compared to other countries in the central americas their lot is quite good. They saw no beggars, they visisted a local school where all the all children seemed norished and healthy.

Just because they are not wealthy does not mean they are not doing ok.

Do you see my point??

[Kung Lek]

Tanglangman-

I agree that poverty is relative. And I do understand that point in what you say.

But, success or failure is mine and I would rather not have a government telling me what I can and cannot succeed at.

This to me is one of the primary failings of communism.No freedom to excel, just sameness for the greater good of all at the expense of all except the politburo or those in power.

This equates humanity to an antfarm in the mentality of a communist government. if I was an artist and the government told me I was not but instead I would be a tobacco or sugarcane farm worker then that is what I would be relegated to an existance of under communist rule with no out but my own death or escape.

You still think it's acceptable living for an individualistic person in a communist country?

peace

Kung Lek