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Thread: Master Jerry Cook

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    Why is this so important? I understand the basic reasons why, there must be more to it.
    Just because someone comes form a strong lineage does not mean anything when it comes to teaching, practicing and using the arts.
    Lineage matters when you are making lienage based claims, other than that, its pointless and it tends to be used by people who's ability can't speak of itself.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  2. #17
    Lineage shows weather or not you have the "Potential" to know what you are doing.

    If you come from a bad lineage, then you don't have a source for the good stuff.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A View Post
    Lineage shows weather or not you have the "Potential" to know what you are doing.

    If you come from a bad lineage, then you don't have a source for the good stuff.
    One of the many problems of TCMA.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  4. #19
    It's not limited to TCMA, it's everything.

    If you have a BJJ guy who sucks or is mediocre, and he opens a school, he will be founding a substandard lineage. Everyone will know that by his schools competition record. The guys who are looking for a really good BJJ school will know to avoid it based on reputation....which is what lineage is, it's the reputation of the line.

    You know that someone from that substandard BJJ lineage would not be good to study under because they don't have the goods. Someone who trained directly under Gracie himself would be better.
    Last edited by RD'S Alias - 1A; 02-15-2008 at 08:41 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A View Post
    It's not limited to TCMA, it's everything.

    If you have a BJJ guy who sucks or is mediocre, and he opens a school, he will be founding a substandard lineage. Everyone will know that by his schools competition record. The guys who are looking for a really good BJJ school will know to avoid it based on reputation....which is what lineage is, it's the reputation of the line.

    You know that someone from that substandard BJJ lineage would not be good to study under because they don't have the goods. Someone who trained directly under Gracie himself would be better.
    Skill is skill, period.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  6. #21
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    One of the many problems of TCMA
    No doubt man. No doubt.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jack II View Post
    No doubt man. No doubt.
    In kyokushin I have fought and taken guys out that trained under 1st generation Oyama teachers and I trained under a 3rd generation one.

    In terms of judo, even further down.

    I have always offered the same linegae test to anyone that asks me :
    Step onto the mat.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A View Post
    It's not limited to TCMA, it's everything.

    If you have a BJJ guy who sucks or is mediocre, and he opens a school, he will be founding a substandard lineage. Everyone will know that by his schools competition record. The guys who are looking for a really good BJJ school will know to avoid it based on reputation....which is what lineage is, it's the reputation of the line.

    You know that someone from that substandard BJJ lineage would not be good to study under because they don't have the goods. Someone who trained directly under Gracie himself would be better.
    honestly thats pure propaganda. Its something the Gracies try to tell people.. but its simply not true. They wish it were true. I been to a few "gracie" schools. I don't train at a place with a well known lineage. were I put my money shows what I think of the quality. People looking for a name, judge a gym or a teacher by his/her lineage.
    With todays technology, and transportation lineage means nothing. This is the information age...

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by monji112000 View Post
    honestly thats pure propaganda. Its something the Gracies try to tell people.. but its simply not true. They wish it were true. I been to a few "gracie" schools. I don't train at a place with a well known lineage. were I put my money shows what I think of the quality. People looking for a name, judge a gym or a teacher by his/her lineage.
    With todays technology, and transportation lineage means nothing. This is the information age...
    No, this is true, for the most part. Check out all the 'fake fighter' threads on MMA.tv.

    Anyone claiming a BJJ lineage and rank better be able to back it up.

    Now, you can be a great submission wrestler without BJJ, but that isn't what RD is talking about.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    No, this is true, for the most part. Check out all the 'fake fighter' threads on MMA.tv.

    Anyone claiming a BJJ lineage and rank better be able to back it up.

    Now, you can be a great submission wrestler without BJJ, but that isn't what RD is talking about.
    And are these "fake fighters" any good?
    And does a "gracie lineage" guarantee a superiour fighter? or is there some secret uber deadly technique taught only to GJJ people ?
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    And are these "fake fighters" any good?
    Not usually.
    And does a "gracie lineage" guarantee a superiour fighter?
    No. But you can hedge your bets if someone has a purple, they know what they are doing.
    or is there some secret uber deadly technique taught only to GJJ people ?
    No.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Not usually.
    No. But you can hedge your bets if someone has a purple, they know what they are doing.
    No.
    Which are the issues the tend to permiate TCMA linage "wars".
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  13. #28
    And does a "gracie lineage" guarantee a superiour fighter? or is there some secret uber deadly technique taught only to GJJ people ?

    Reply]
    It's not about the lineage's guarantee, but thier reputation. If lineage "A" has a reputation for putting out top fighters, and Lineage "B" has a reputation for catering to the mainstream soccer Mom's, which lineage would a real fighter look for?

  14. #29
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    SR, you're kindof not understanding what TCMA lineage is about. Teachers from a higher generation are respected for their age and experience, they are not deemed to be automatically more badass, and there's nothing wrong with training with a lower generation Sifu (this might be an issue more in Wing Chun circles, but they've got such a mass of political BS going on it's not even funny). The point is that there's a solid and verifiable link to the source. Bad lineage isn't a political or heirarchical thing, it's a QC issue.
    The equivalent would be someone who'd wrestled a bit in high school, did 3 months at a Gracie barra school and done a couple of Eddie Bravo seminars setting up a school and proclaiming himself to be a black belt under Carlson Gracie, now that sounds proposterous, but you see this sh*t ALL the time in Kung Fu.
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
    www.swindonkungfu.co.uk

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    No, this is true, for the most part. Check out all the 'fake fighter' threads on MMA.tv.

    Anyone claiming a BJJ lineage and rank better be able to back it up.

    Now, you can be a great submission wrestler without BJJ, but that isn't what RD is talking about.
    sure you better not lie about who you train with. BUT, training under a "gracie" doesn't mean anything. I can train under a nobody, and still be pretty **** good.
    JMO

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