Boxing and Wing Chun

[t_niehoff]

His hands aren't low, his chin is too high.

I know you're being facetious, but he (the 11 year-old) has good technique including keeping his chin tucked.

Let me share a personal anecdote: when I was a kid, I played tennis (and went on to play on my college team). When my parents took me (around 11 or 12) to my first pro/coach, he focused on nothing but getting me to hit the ball as hard as I could, as fast as I could, with everything I had. He wanted every shot to be like a rocket blast. He didn't care if the ball went out, into the net, whatever -- just kept focusing on hitting the ball as hard as I could. My parents watched this go on for a while and then approached him inquiring about his method. He told them that if you focused on things like ball control, various technical details, etc. that you will never develop power (which come from the body mechanics) because those things prevent you from moving freely (and you need to move freely to find your power). First, you develop the power, the mechanics, then you take those mechanics and begin fine-tuning them (building off the movement). And over the years, I saw he was right. The kids that first developed power eventually would learn the technical side whereas the kids that first learned the technical side never really had the power.

I think it works the same for any sport or athletic activity because that's how our body learns. These kids IMO are on the right path.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I know you're being facetious, but he (the 11 year-old) has good technique including keeping his chin tucked.

Let me share a personal anecdote: when I was a kid, I played tennis (and went on to play on my college team). When my parents took me (around 11 or 12) to my first pro/coach, he focused on nothing but getting me to hit the ball as hard as I could, as fast as I could, with everything I had. He wanted every shot to be like a rocket blast. He didn't care if the ball went out, into the net, whatever -- just kept focusing on hitting the ball as hard as I could. My parents watched this go on for a while and then approached him inquiring about his method. He told them that if you focused on things like ball control, various technical details, etc. that you will never develop power (which come from the body mechanics) because those things prevent you from moving freely (and you need to move freely to find your power). First, you develop the power, the mechanics, then you take those mechanics and begin fine-tuning them (building off the movement). And over the years, I saw he was right. The kids that first developed power eventually would learn the technical side whereas the kids that first learned the technical side never really had the power.

I think it works the same for any sport or athletic activity because that's how our body learns. These kids IMO are on the right path.

Low hands?
A dude, you can look at champions doing their stuff, like you mentioned, or even in the ring and you will see low hands.
As for the kid, I have seen what MANY here have to offer and the, in terms of pad work and technique, is years a head of them, so...

[punchdrunk]

I understand the mechanics and intent of Wing chun and boxing are very different, I just thought they might have influenced eachother a bit for you. Your keeping them very seperate and with your experience you must have some good reasons. Again thanx for taking the time to explain it is appreciated!

[Vajramusti]

I wish the kid well.

joy chaudhuri

[Hardwork108]

But with the ideal of mixing the arts and b@stardizing two great systems together (boxing and wing), or by distorting a basic or intermediate comprehension of these ideals…

I would be left alone searching for answers from both systems that doesn’t complement each other… But only exploring my own interpretations within a massive deviation for self gratification…

Great comments Ali.

I’m not in tune with b@stardizing any art form, for that’s well above my pay grade…


Ali Rahim.

This post should be required reading for MMA-ists who mix a little bit of kung fu (which they have not understood) with up to a dozen other MA's that they probably have not fully understood either, while (some) even daring to label what they do as "improved", "functional", etc. kung fu.

[Ali. R]

He’s something that I call a hella mix, name, style and women... I'm at work right now, gotta to go…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkVhOy0jGZ4


Ali Rahim.

[LSWCTN1]

I know you're being facetious, but he (the 11 year-old) has good technique including keeping his chin tucked.

Let me share a personal anecdote: when I was a kid, I played tennis (and went on to play on my college team). When my parents took me (around 11 or 12) to my first pro/coach, he focused on nothing but getting me to hit the ball as hard as I could, as fast as I could, with everything I had. He wanted every shot to be like a rocket blast. He didn't care if the ball went out, into the net, whatever -- just kept focusing on hitting the ball as hard as I could. My parents watched this go on for a while and then approached him inquiring about his method. He told them that if you focused on things like ball control, various technical details, etc. that you will never develop power (which come from the body mechanics) because those things prevent you from moving freely (and you need to move freely to find your power). First, you develop the power, the mechanics, then you take those mechanics and begin fine-tuning them (building off the movement). And over the years, I saw he was right. The kids that first developed power eventually would learn the technical side whereas the kids that first learned the technical side never really had the power.

I think it works the same for any sport or athletic activity because that's how our body learns. These kids IMO are on the right path.

i always seem to disagree with you! its not intentional!

the way i am taught is different to this

my instructor will remove all the speed and power that you have initially, and get your positioning and placement right. once this is correct he will then add the power and speed back in.

i do understand your way, but respectfully disagree in regards to wck.

however, i'm sure you enjoy what you do - and i certainly enjoy what i do

all the best

David

[sanjuro_ronin]

i always seem to disagree with you! its not intentional!

the way i am taught is different to this

my instructor will remove all the speed and power that you have initially, and get your positioning and placement right. once this is correct he will then add the power and speed back in.

i do understand your way, but respectfully disagree in regards to wck.

however, i'm sure you enjoy what you do - and i certainly enjoy what i do

all the best

David

Its a not a either / or situation.
Use BOTH methods.
Fact is, no matter how great and perfect your form is in any given physical movement done at a moderate pace, when it is done at a full speed pace VS resistence, it tends to fall apart simple because it has never been trained in that way.
Look at sprinters, they come to the track with great natural speed and then they perfect and work on their form, starting at a moderate pace, then working at stages and finally doing it a full speed, but they already come with great speed to the track, if they don't, that becomes the first priority in training.
Again, its not a case of either / or but of using both.

[Ali. R]

Fact is, no matter how great and perfect your form is in any given physical movement done at a moderate pace, when it is done at a full speed pace VS resistence, it tends to fall apart simple because it has never been trained in that way.

Because of that fact, that’s why one has to spar dealing with the ideal of muscle memory or physical movements when fighting; hitting the pads there is no reason why your hands should drop because one is in training or in the class room, and it will be the teacher's fault if one continue to make that same mistake over and over again when in training, eventually the fighter will carry that right into the ring…

One should always train with good form (I know you didn’t say anything different); it will be the trainer’s fault if the fighter drops his/her hands when they fight or train… Usually that is an indication that the fighter is out of shape or tired (trainer’s fault), because no one wants to get in the ring and start off fighting with their hands down…

And if a fighter drops his/her hands because of the pressure, speed, pace and resistance then the fighter is incompetent (him/her has to go back to work)… A good fighter shouldn’t drop his or her hands until the later rounds and it shouldn’t be intentionally done, unless one has a whole lot of natural talent…

Dropping ones hands because one is moving fast and dealing with pace and resistance is an amateur mistake; both on the trainer and fighters part…

Take care,


Ali Rahim.

[Ali. R]

This is why one should stay really relaxed while in training or in the ring, so one wouldn’t wind up on the punches for power, and then start dropping their hands from doing so…


Ali Rahim.

[Ali. R]

I know most here feels that all of the kids that I train suck, but for some this is news…

I have good news for one of my middleweight boxers; he will be fighting for the “Louisville Intercity Middleweight Championship” this summer and it may be real soon…

He has no one looking at him yet, so we don’t have any restriction on his fight footage and he has not been beaten in any of his sparing matches, and this will be a real challenge for him because he has never box in his life until he met me (one year ago)…

Usually for all of my young fighters they give away a lot far as experience and as well age, but they seem too win…

I have no doubt that this 17 year old will win this championship (his first fight)…

He’s smooth as silk under pressure and can counterpunch too, and I’m blessed to have kids that can win championships their first time out…

I’ll be making clips of him preparing for the fight as well as interviews with him and his family, all from Cuba…

Jose “ The Cuban Tropical Storm” Velcarcel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0_C4257Klg



Ali Rahim.

[Mr Punch]

The footage on that Mavis Staples link is still shocking. And only one generation ago...

Apart from that, good luck to your fighter.

[Ali. R]

It’s indeed shocking, but sadly many different nationalities still face major problems here in the U.S. because of their skin and who they are…

And yes, one generation ago just as my grandparents used to say, “ Lest we forget”…

That pain is what shaped me and many others like myself…

And thanks for hoping good thing for my fighters…


Ali Rahim.

[Ali. R]

This kid tries coming to my house almost everyday… He wants to live like me, drive like me, and most of all fight like me (I’m his biggest fan)…

His father drops him off every time with a big smile on his face… I don’t live in the city; I stay about 45min outside of Louisville in a horse farm community, and just behind my house are hills, cliffs, creeks, deer and big cats…

He’s training hard, real hard, but he has an incentive too win that championship and that’s because I have promised to let him drive one of my cars and a one thousand dollar bonus –or- gift used strictly for his education…

And if you listen closely, that heavy sound of wind that comes across the camera’s microphone is I, as my heart just flutters from just thinking about letting him drive it to his senior prom…

So what it’s a $75.000 car, it’s just a car… Well, this kid means a lot to me away…

He don’t show off and he don’t talk much and that’s just the way I like them…

Well, if you guys don’t run me off from this thread you just might see a real good fight, no ‘Wildman Crap’ like some have post here on this forum, junk all of that crap because this is the real deal…

I’ll never show his power on clip, because I have a hard enough time finding sparing partners @ $25 a round…

Everyone that spars him one time (4 rounds) never agree to do it again, only one person and that’s our very own forum member ‘Chris Gray’ or “Graychaun”….

For middleweights on this forum, if you ever want a vacation (or just have something to prove) room paid for and everything just call me. I’ll only ask for 3 sparing matches with this kid (4 rounds each)…

This kid and his family want the big time, ‘HBO’ and everything; hey what can I say this kid is super bad!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVKhJUAXu-8

Enjoy or not but stay happy,


Ali Rahim.

[Pacman]

On the inside ("close quarters"), you won't be able to pull them off at all as your opponent will be moving too fast (even if you are watching his elbows and knees ).

if you block and then strike, you will always be one step behind. your opponent will be controlling the situation.

you either keep blocking and running away until he stops attacking or you say "F" it and throw some punches of your own and it becomes a mini-brawl until someone gets caught or you both back away.

the alternative is to block while striking. he either has to block himself, move out of the way or at the very least it puts pressure on him to disrupt his attack.

THIS HOLDS TRUE EVER MORE IN A CLOSE RANGE VS LONG RANGE.

like you said, when your in close range your opponents moves will be too fast...if you keep blocking each attack it will only be a matter of time before you get hit.