a myth busted

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Q: Yip sifu, how are you? I am a WC student from USA, and I have some questions regarding your father, grandmaster Yip Man.
A: I'll be happy to answer any questions. Have a seat.
Q: I read on the internet that your father was related to Chu Chung Man of Weng Chun. Is that true?
A: They were good friends.
Q: They say Chu Chung Man was Yip Man's uncle.
A: No. They were not related, just good friends.
Q: Thank you for answering my question. I am going to put this on the internet to clarify the matter.
A: Yes.
Q: Thank you for your time.

There you have it, from the horse's mouth. I can provide the date and time such an encounter took place..." (dfl)


***AMAZING that you didn't follow up with any questions about whether or not one or the other of these two "friends" was teaching/trading techniques and theories with the other one.

How come?

[dfl]

***AMAZING that you didn't follow up with any questions about whether or not one or the other of these two "friends" was teaching/trading techniques and theories with the other one.

How come?

I have thought about it but I refrained for 2 simple reasons:

1. Yip Chun was not around at the time such meetings were supposed to take place. He came out of China during the 60's, I believe. Anything he says on such matters, despite his prominence as YM's eldest son, is no better than 3rd hand hearsay. I am only interested in getting at the truth or something believable, like who he's related to.
2. To him I was just a total stranger coming off the street. How is he to know if I am not a complete whacko nutcase? Why would he share things which could only be discussed behind closed doors among closest members of the family?

[Vajramusti]

IMO dfl's judgement was the correct one. Ip Man's sons didnt move to HK till the 60s.
Ip man began teaching publicly on HK- but his mastering of the art and his main "experiences"
were already well developed before his exit from Mao's China.

joy chaudhuri

[NgGung]

I agree, both Brothers came to Hk in 1962!

[t_niehoff]

TN you're snide post is completely uncalled for. DFL said it was for history buffs at the very beginning. You dont care thats fine but no reason at all to attempt to belittle or denegrate DFL or what he is attempting to do. I for one enjoy the history. I have a degree in history .

Far to many people have called upon faulty history or out right lied about history to back up and sell their version of wing chun. This started after Yip Mans death and today followers of followers of these made up systems and histories teach and sell based on fabrications and lies.

If more people had told the truth and called out those that didnt years ago we would not have so many questionable systems and methods of wing chun as we see today.

Why, tell me why, do the mods delete my posts but leave those up that comment on it?

I made my "snide" remarks because this person used Yip Chun as some authority to rebut something someone else said. Well, as he even said in his own statement:

"The moral is: don't accept press releases, even from well known “sifus”, “masters” and “grandmasters”, at face value."

Well, exactly. Duh!

And that includes Yip Chun.

(To clarify- I found it disingenious that someone would say you shouldn't take the word of wll-known "authorities" when that was exactly what he was doing. Hence my snideness. But I am not surprised this was overlooked by you and others here.).

As Dr. House so aptly puts it every week: Everybody Lies. But to be kinder than Dr. House, you need to take everything with a (huge) grain of salt. Instead of accepting what anyone says as true, we need to look for evidence that can be independently verifiable. Absent that, it is just another unproven claim.

[KPM]

Instead of accepting what anyone says as true, we need to look for evidence that can be independently verifiable. Absent that, it is just another unproven claim.

Rather than accepting what anyone (ie internet posters) have said, DFL sought out info that could be independently verifiable. He went directly to Yip Chun and asked him if he was related to Chu Chong Man. How much more "verifiable" do you want it? Should we collect blood samples from both men and compare their DNA?

[anerlich]

- I found it disingenious that someone would say you shouldn't take the word of wll-known "authorities" when that was exactly what he was doing.

JMFC, YC's the son of one of the two people concerned, not an "authority". Your mother probably told you you were your father's son and not a b@stard child of the milkman too, but why would you or anyone else believe her?

Why, tell me why, do the mods delete my posts but leave those up that comment on it?

I don't know, but IMO a good call and a policy that should be implemented across the board. Props to the mods.

[t_niehoff]

Rather than accepting what anyone (ie internet posters) have said, DFL sought out info that could be independently verifiable. He went directly to Yip Chun and asked him if he was related to Chu Chong Man. How much more "verifiable" do you want it? Should we collect blood samples from both men and compare their DNA?

See if you can follow this:

1) DFL made the point -- "The moral is: don't accept press releases, even from well known “sifus”, “masters” and “grandmasters”, at face value." (He was applying this to someone else not himself, as we will see below).

2) DFL then went on to make a "press release" as a forum post citing his interview with Yip Chun as "proof"

3) and asked us to take it at "face value".

Do you see the hypocricy, the contradiction?

Well, maybe you don't. After all, it was you who said on another thread
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=14

"I'm not one to emphasize the "sifu sez" approach, but Wong Shun Leung himself described WCK as being "simple, direct, and efficient." That's good enough for me!"

Once again,

1) I don't emphasize "sifu sez"

2) But "sifu sez" this or that

3) and that's good enough for me.

F#$king brilliant. (Snide comment alert).


What I am suggesting is to not accept DFL's word of what Yip Chun said or even accepting what Yip Chun said as fact, but instead looking for independent verification of both, to find as much evidence as we can *before* we start jumping to conclusions, things like getting info from the Chu Chong Man people, other Yip people, etc. and then weighing that evidence to determine how credible it is, to then determine the liklihood of various things, etc. In other words, to do what all good historical researchers do.

But that may be asking too much of people who can't see simple self-contraditctions.

And let me add, I have no problem whatsoever with DFL posting his "interview" with Yip Chun. That may be useful info. What I objected to was the underlying context on his post which was based on a self-contradiction and hypocritical.

[reneritchie]

Yip Smash Puny Rumor?

Nice Dan.

The rumor, FWIW, came from one of those articles (my memory is no longer good enough to remember which), which mentioned very much in passing something like "a distant relative on his mother's side".

While based on past happenings, I tend to look for political machinations in these types of replies, it doesn't seem significant enough for Yip Chun sifu not to give a direct answer, to the best of his knowledge (and I say that only because I have no idea about distant relatives on my mother's side, so don't expect others too have universal knowledge either).

[KPM]

Terence wrote:
Do you see the hypocricy, the contradiction?

----I think most of us here understood DFL's purpose in posting what he did. He could have put it in a better context. What he wrote was a bit of a contradiction. But we all appreciated the info he provided without having to turn it into an argument. But then, you like to argue.


"I'm not one to emphasize the "sifu sez" approach, but Wong Shun Leung himself described WCK as being "simple, direct, and efficient." That's good enough for me!"

Once again,

1) I don't emphasize "sifu sez"

2) But "sifu sez" this or that

3) and that's good enough for me.

F#$king brilliant. (Snide comment alert).

---The "I'm not one to emphasize the sifu sex approach" was the disclaimor to point out that I felt it was pretty significant that WSL had agreed with the theme of the thread. You had asked "who says..." I told you the answer.


What I am suggesting is to not accept DFL's word of what Yip Chun said or even accepting what Yip Chun said as fact, but instead looking for independent verification of both, to find as much evidence as we can *before* we start jumping to conclusions, things like getting info from the Chu Chong Man people, other Yip people, etc. and then weighing that evidence to determine how credible it is, to then determine the liklihood of various things, etc. In other words, to do what all good historical researchers do.

---That sounds like an awful lot of work just to decide whether Yip Man was related to Chu Chong Man. Is the info worth that much effort? Seems a better solution to me is to simply ask one of Yip Man's relatives whether or not they are related to Chu Chong Man. That may not satisfy the rigors of academic historical research, but it certainly carries more weight than an article posted on the internet!

But that may be asking too much of people who can't see simple self-contraditctions.

---And it may be too much to ask you to take part in a thread without turning it into a big argument.

And let me add, I have no problem whatsoever with DFL posting his "interview" with Yip Chun. That may be useful info. What I objected to was the underlying context on his post which was based on a self-contradiction and hypocritical.

---Like you've never posted things that were objectionable!!??? Why does everything have to be a big argument with you? Why not just take DFLs post for what he intended?

[reneritchie]

"I'm not one to emphasize the sifu sex approach"

Too many jokes flooding system... Kernel panicking on Jessica Biel being sifu...

D'oh, BSOD!

[KPM]

Too many jokes flooding system... Kernel panicking on Jessica Biel being sifu...

D'oh, BSOD!

Ooops!!! How about "sifu Alba"....or would that be "simo"?

[reneritchie]

Nice KPM,

Looks like sifu sex is a real thread killa!

[tjwingchun]

Nice KPM,

Looks like sifu sex is a real thread killa!

Depends if you are the Sifu or the strudent

[drleungjohn]

Unfortunately,Sifu Alba is not in her right mind these days-maybe hormones,maybe liver chi stagnation,who knows--and worse-when the baby comes out not looking like Cash Warren,but a certain Sicilian Chiropractor Wing Chun practitioner from Long Island-The fecal matter is really going to fly