So I got to make dit da jow the other day

[herb ox]

Ah, so you have heard of the secret forum-ula - just make sure the stallion is under the age of 10.

ox

[Drake]

Ok, folks, I am on Dale's side of the fence here. It's like if I were to walk up to a Soldier looking down the barrel of his rifle trying to clean it.

There is absolutely no excuse for suggesting toxic chemicals be used on a topical solution, especially mercury. I think we need to put aside the idea of hurting someone's feelings if that person is recommending harmful practices. We have gone past a civil disagreement to a situation where a novice could be harmed by following the directions.

As for the anonymous nature of the net, it's great when simply posting random anecdotes. However, when professional advice is given, it should be backed up by someone who has worked in the profession. This may be the net, but people still are obligated to back their proposed works. It's not a free for all.

[Royal Dragon]

Ok, I have a question.

What does Cinnabar actually do in the formula? Why is it there? What can be substituted for it's place?

Now, I have a Materia Medica and can look this up myself, HOWEVER I think due to the direction of this thread it may be a good idea for the more experienced and knowledgeable people here to offer some insite to this herb and it's uses, as well as why it should not be used today.

I think in the past it was not a well known fact that Mercury is poisonous over long term use...or they would not have used it even then.

However, since we know this now in modern times, It might be more productive for us to talk about what substitutes can be used to replace it as well.

[Dale Dugas]

Cinnabar helps to do a few things(at least according to theory)

Calms the Heart; Calms the Mind; Clears Heat; Expels toxins.

Clearing heat and expelling toxins is what I would see it being used in dit da formulas. You would want to get heat and swelling down. Toxins could also be causing problems with swelling and pain and getting rid of them would be warranted.

But you can use many other herbs in the materia medica that clear heat and expel toxins. Take your pick. Most formula were designed by herbalists in certain areas that had certain herbs.

Not all herbs were everywhere hence the wide variety of formula and herbs.

[Great Mender]

• 1 liter bottle of strong vodka, gin or Chinese rice wine
• Artemesia (Liu ji nu) - 5g
• Borneol (Bingpian) - 1g
• Carthamus (Honghua) - 5g
• Catechu (Ercha) - 8g
• Cinnabar (Zhusha) - 5g
• Cirsium (DaJi) - 1g
• Dragon's Blood (Xuejie) - 30g
• Mastic (Ruxiang) - 5g
• Musk (Shexiang) - 1g
• Myrrh (Moyao) - 5g
• Pinellia (ShengBanXia) - 5g

Grind up place in alcohol stir weekly ready on 60 days
really strong after 6 months. Keep out of open wounds
OTD

This is a Wing Chun Dit Da Jow, by Sifu John Crescione:
http://www.crocuta.net/crescioneOnJow.htm

[Royal Dragon]

Dale,
If you were to post a formula without posting the herbs themselves, but instead by posting thier function only, what would it look like?

[herb ox]

What does Cinnabar actually do in the formula? Why is it there? What can be substituted for it's place?

Mercury preparations have a strong antimicrobial action, and have been used in conventional medicine since the early 1900's (i.e. mercurochrome). So, mercury is not all bad. In fact, mercury's toxicity is largely dependent on its form.

My guess is the ancients found the cinnabar to prevent infection, and speed the healing of the microscopic wounds created as a result of training the hands. Also, it's "cold" properties mitigate the warm/hot herbs that largely comprise the formula and may simply have been found to prevent a rash from the other irritating herbs.

I don't think the cinnabar is used in this formula for calming the spirit But, the substance was highly regarded as the elixir of immortality, so I can see a symbolic (or even energetic) reason for its inclusion.

As for substitutions, I think I'd put Da Huang (Rhubarb) and Zi Ran Tong (Iron Pyrite). Both have cold energy and are used for treating traumatic injury. The Da Huang has the added benefit of an antibacterial action, while the Zi Ran Tong helps fractures to heal more quickly.

peace

herb ox

[GeneChing]

Stallion urine is allegedly high in a steriod-like compound (which we know is skin permeable from the Bonds case ) so I've heard postulation that the legend of the stable boy being a stud might be founded in the exposure to horse pee. Stranger things have happened. Urine, particularly that of virgin boys, is a common element in many kung fu curatives. I'm disappointed that no one here picked up on the reference.

As for mercury, it is universally considered as a mystical element. If you look at almost ancient culture, it figures prominent as a common ingredient, particularly in the quest for the philosopher's stone, which is essentially what the external dan is in ancient TCM. That is the same dan as in dantian, and we all know where that research went, right? Dan means cinnabar. Given all this history, I'm really surprised it drew such a violent reaction, since anyone who knows there history, knows the origin.

Know your roots and culture.

[Royal Dragon]

I think it drew such a strong reaction because it's poisionus and we are supposed to know better because we are in modern times now. The ignorance of our ancestors is supposed to be log gone.

[GeneChing]

By "ignorance of our ancestors" do you mean that our ancestors were ignorant or that we are ignorant of our ancestors? Neither is long gone. Quite the opposite, I'd say.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Depends on the conversation.

[Seppukku]

I don't know why you guys buy stallion urine. Just go study Shaolin Ninjitsu, and you'll be pissing out a goldmine.

[herb ox]

I mentioned the 10 year old stallion... Gene, I'm surprised YOU didn't catch the reference...

Actually, regarding the urine of a virgin boy... there's nothing mystical about it, but urine does have some medicinal qualities as supported by both Chinese medicine and Ayurveda. The idea behind the virginity aspect is that the urine should basically be free from diseases at that early age. Urine is sterile from healthy humans. However, it makes an excellent bacterial growth medium

Wait, haven't we had this discussion before?

ox

[GeneChing]

A colt is under 4. A 10 year old stallion is aged.

Here's some urine therapy for you (but I think this thread is going the wrong direction now...)

[bodhitree]

A colt is under 4. A 10 year old stallion is aged.

Here's some urine therapy for you (but I think this thread is going the wrong direction now...)

Iron Crotch and Golden Showers, THIS is what tcma is all about!