How is Lama Pai Different?

[KFNOOB]

Physical Therapist Jurak I am offended. Are you following this thread? My post is perfectly in line with this thread. I do not pretend to be an authority on KF but others here are debating or giving opinions on Lama's difficulty yet one instructor clearly teaches Lama first then AFTER getting your black sash you learn CLF. You dont think this is an important distinction?

Bad day? Wife telling you to clean the garage? What have I done to you?

[lkfmdc]

Chris was just being nice, you are really an f-in tool.....

PS: it would be nice if he had actually learned any Lama before he actually tried to teach it

[jo]

Sounds like JKD to me
Maybe even lionsroar.....

Would that be the LionsRoar as taught by Steve Richards via videotape?

-jo

[sanjuro_ronin]

Would that be the LionsRoar as taught by Steve Richards via videotape?

-jo

I have no idea what you are taking about, though I have seen clips of Steve and a few others, there was never any indication of instructional in any way.
The last ones I saw of him and Mr.Tavares were quite good actually.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Last time I was in the bakery I saw the Lama Pies located right next to those Meadow Muffins.....



That sounds a bit backwards from what I think you meant....

LOL !
yes, quite correct, I meant that a system like SPM is best studied AFTER a solid foundation in another one.

[KFNOOB]

Chris was just being nice, you are really an f-in tool.....

PS: it would be nice if he had actually learned any Lama before he actually tried to teach it

I guess you are going to hijack this thread also. I state facts. This thread is about differences in Lama Pai. Fact: There are different viewpoints even within the Chan Tai San lineage. One instructor says you should teach Lama after learning CLF and another says opposite.

Some of you are a very po0r representation of your art. Ventura is well spoken, speaks nothing bad of anyone from what we know and doesnt seem to spend all day on message boards pounding his chest about how much he knows. Same with Gomez. For whatever reason they arent into these childish games.

The other CTS students are still fighting after all these years.

It's rather sad, actually.

I speak facts and get cursed at. You just want this thread to go the usual route of "I know more because I drive CTS around for years and translated for him BLA BLA BLA"

I guess this forum is your only link to the past. No one really cares about you anyway. If it was so great you'd have Lama all over your site. Instead you have SANDA because, lets face it, no one wants to learn that other stuff anymore...at least not enough to pay the rent so you being a businessman you flip the switch to SANDA-MMA to get the people in. When the students arent coming in, throw up the MMA sign!

SELL OUT!

Everyone should go to www.bullshido.net and look up LKFMDC's posts and see how he shamelessly tried to run his fellow CTS student out of business. Over and over, literally, he kept making allegations....they demanded proff of which he could not provide. Went on for long time....like he does here, David just kept going on....without shame..trying to hurt another CTS student....bullshido wanted proof....he disappeared. Shameless...CTS would be quite proud.

We look at Ventura as the senior guy now as far as CTS....he is not thrilled with your behavior.....I dont care what he tells you. He is not thrilled.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Physical Therapist Jurak I am offended. Are you following this thread? My post is perfectly in line with this thread. I do not pretend to be an authority on KF but others here are debating or giving opinions on Lama's difficulty yet one instructor clearly teaches Lama first then AFTER getting your black sash you learn CLF. You dont think this is an important distinction?

Bad day? Wife telling you to clean the garage? What have I done to you?

No one can say whether CLF or Lama should be taught first. It's really only a matter of opinion. I've taught both simultaneously and taught each one before the other at different times. Lama is a very different style from 'shaolin' types styles as we know them today, that's all. It uses completely different strategies and theories. It's not harder to learn per se, than other styles. In fact, I believe that the basics, from physical point of view, are usually easier than a style like CLF. (For the most part, anyway, there are a few techniques which students seem to take a long time to really understand).

I think an arguement for either side can be made; teach a student Lama first, so they don't have to unlearn anything. OR teach it to them after they have a few years experience in other arts so they can grasp the complexity of the fighting concepts.

I'm sure I can come up with at least a half o-dozen points for either side, so really...what's the point?

I don't think anyone is going to 'bite' if you are going after Maxfit. We've all contributed what we could as far as verifying claims. I can only tell of my experiences with him from many years ago. He very well might be a great teacher and talented martial artist now. Who knows? I only verified when and for how long he trained with me, me being his first teacher. If that confilicts with his website, so be it. That's something that he has to live with and face up to, not me.

I've resigned from anymore flame-wars here. I'll be glad to answer any questions or help to verify facts about something/someone, provided I can be of help.

[lkfmdc]

We look at Ventura as the senior guy now as far as CTS....he is not thrilled with your behavior.....I dont care what he tells you. He is not thrilled.

Who is "we"? You and your imaginary friend?

And AGAIN, Steve Ventura says you should NOT speak for him.

Everyone should go to www.bullshido.net and look up LKFMDC's posts and see how he shamelessly tried to run his fellow CTS student out of business. Over and over, literally, he kept making allegations....

Yes, everyone SHOULD run over there and read that thread, and the PROOF in the form of pictures, articles and emails that PROVE BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that said person is full of crap

So, since you PUSHED, I guess it's time to "out" another one. Rafael Gomez' web site if so full of lies its amazing. He did not start martial arts in 1975. When he arrived in the Mineola school in 1992 he had never studied martial arts before.

In Mineola he had extremely limited contact with Chan Tai San

After 1995, when he left Mike Parrella to study with Steve Ventura, he had NO CONTACT with Chan Tai San

He learned little to NO Lama Pai. And cry all you want, but let's remember I am one of the guys who learned the most Lama Pai

Rafael was also not that good at it. He used to do Jong Choih like a karate outside block and was stiff as hell. Ventura and I used to laugh about it

I could also add, Rafael doesn't speak a single word of Chinese, so how much could have possibly have learned from Chan Tai San? HMMMMMMMMMM? Even if he wants to invent some secret meeting on some fantasy island the fact remains that CTS didnt' speak English and Rafael wouldn't have any idea what he was saying

What is sad and pathetic is a guy who never studied with CTS claiming to be a disciple, claiming to teach things he never learned and sending his student to try and drum up business by spamming a board....

now, please F off

[KFNOOB]

Thanks Michael. Your answers are very helpful. I am not against Rafael at all. I was just curious to know why there was the philosophical differences. I appreciate your input. I have some answers now so I wont bother David any longer since he has no patience for beginners.

[diego]

when i look at kaido's hop gar techniques...there is enough drills there to equal muay thai shadowboxing technique and more...we like to train low sweeps and tornado kicks...palms are a favorite.

in kaido's forms he blends kajukenbo horse stance structure foundation with hop gar full body destruction techniques...say buddy attempts a right front kick to your groin or gut...left foot twist step and right follow into left leg weighted cat stance and you jam him by left palm brush to his right knee on the outside of the cap and at the same time right vert fist to his gut...quickly right front kick to his gut/groin and then shuffle into right bow stance ramming him and right vertical spear hand to the soft spot on his r side neck under side of chn.

so he jams him with palm brush which is destruction principle damaging the knee...punches get destroying stance...kicks gut, now this is kajukenbo but it continues the tower crumbling intention...then he jumps into hop gar footwork with the knockout to neck.

kaido just uses hop gar as an extra weapon...just like you would use a knife...destroy his limbs and stab his blood spots

[rogue]

Lama is a very different style from 'shaolin' types styles as we know them today, that's all. It uses completely different strategies and theories.

Mike,
That one of the things that I was thinking about when I started this thread. Could you give a quick list of the strategies and tactics, or point me to a link for them?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Thanks Michael. Your answers are very helpful. I am not against Rafael at all. I was just curious to know why there was the philosophical differences. I appreciate your input. I have some answers now so I wont bother David any longer since he has no patience for beginners.

Glad to be of service. David is actually a very patient person, albeit, when you've been teaching in the city for a long time, you constantly get bombarded by all types of wack-jobs wanting to become the 'next dragon' or the 'master killer' (No offense to our favorite moderator, MK! ) and telling stories about their monk teachers, who's name they can't reveal, who taught them this secret style, blah blah blah - you kind of get fed up listening to most people talk about KF.

Not to mention the amount of common and uncommon trolls who present themselves so 'cleverly' on the forum here.

Sometimes this forum can be a great source of info and a nice way to make aquaintences. I for one have met some very cool people and have learned a lot about other people's respective styles.

With the exception of Steven V., I've known David longer than anyone on here (maybe Chris??). David is a great guy, despite the fact that we've fought and argued many times over the years. Mostly back in the early and mid 90's, but that is what brothers do sometimes. Anyone who actually meets David would find him a genuine and sincere person - a wealth of Chinese martial arts history, theory and techniques. Sometimes 'tone' cannot always be interpreted correctly online. Although his patience may seem limited here as he is sometimes quick to give a troll a smack, he's always been a good guy and I'm proud to call him my older brother (even thought I am older than he, and much more handsome and muscular, d'oh!)

You obviously wanted some info, legitimatly. I hope you found what you were looking for.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Mike,
That one of the things that I was thinking about when I started this thread. Could you give a quick list of the strategies and tactics, or point me to a link for them?

Well, look at this detail; Punches do not generate from chambered position, i.e., shaolin styles. Torque is NOT generated the was many 'shaolin' type techniques are - no turning over as in Ping Choih. Here is just one example.

When we do Chuyhn Choih, (Penetrating Fist) a staple techniques of the style, you learn to throw it from a very short distance without turning over the hand to generate power. Power is generated from the twisting of the waist. Yes, I know, all styles will claim the twist the waist and they do; but not the same way or as far as we do.

I am filming some clips on these concepts as we speak. Well, not as we speak, or even as I type...but you get the idea.

Easier to explain and show, pain to write.

[rogue]

Part of your online series I hope?

[goldberg]

I guess you are going to hijack this thread also. I state facts. This thread is about differences in Lama Pai. Fact: There are different viewpoints even within the Chan Tai San lineage. One instructor says you should teach Lama after learning CLF and another says opposite.

Some of you are a very po0r representation of your art. Ventura is well spoken, speaks nothing bad of anyone from what we know and doesnt seem to spend all day on message boards pounding his chest about how much he knows. Same with Gomez. For whatever reason they arent into these childish games.

The other CTS students are still fighting after all these years.

It's rather sad, actually.

I speak facts and get cursed at. You just want this thread to go the usual route of "I know more because I drive CTS around for years and translated for him BLA BLA BLA"

I guess this forum is your only link to the past. No one really cares about you anyway. If it was so great you'd have Lama all over your site. Instead you have SANDA because, lets face it, no one wants to learn that other stuff anymore...at least not enough to pay the rent so you being a businessman you flip the switch to SANDA-MMA to get the people in. When the students arent coming in, throw up the MMA sign!

SELL OUT!

Everyone should go to www.bullshido.net and look up LKFMDC's posts and see how he shamelessly tried to run his fellow CTS student out of business. Over and over, literally, he kept making allegations....they demanded proff of which he could not provide. Went on for long time....like he does here, David just kept going on....without shame..trying to hurt another CTS student....bullshido wanted proof....he disappeared. Shameless...CTS would be quite proud.

We look at Ventura as the senior guy now as far as CTS....he is not thrilled with your behavior.....I dont care what he tells you. He is not thrilled.

well said. and very true. the guy only talks about himself.