Honest HFY Question-

[KPM]

There is no need to speculate on answer to a question that is specific to a particular lineage that you can't verify the answer to without more awareness of the system itself. Since everyone here seems to have an opinion based on their own interpretation of the question and their understanding of "Gwai Ma" relative to their experience instead of dwelling on what you perceive as a negative add some positive feed back and answer what you believe "Gwai Ma" is and how it is used in the martial art you practice.

What another load of bull! Do you guys take lessons in "double speak?" It seems to just keep getting deaper and deaper!

[CHS]

Matt/Canglong,
Why got so sensitive or defensive on a question? Did buddhism (part of HFY philiosophy) teach you that there are always 2 ways to interpret something: constructive way and destructive way? It seemed like you always take things negatively.

Please, it was JUST a question.

If you like it, answer it, otherwise, just don't! Why spending so much energy defending your position on a questionable motive and attacking it?

Here we go again.......

The forum was quite peaceful until.........

CHS

[duende]

Matt/Canglong,
Why got so sensitive or defensive on a question? Did buddhism (part of HFY philiosophy) teach you that there are always 2 ways to interpret something: constructive way and destructive way? It seemed like you always take things negatively.

Please, it was JUST a question.

If you like it, answer it, otherwise, just don't! Why spending so much energy defending your position on a questionable motive and attacking it?

Here we go again.......

The forum was quite peaceful until.........

CHS

You know... you're right, and to a large extent I regret that this thread caused so much negative energy.

Unfortunately however, there exist a few individuals who use every chance comparison of HFY and TWC to slander our system in a very bad way. This is unacceptable.

So until these certain few get a grip on there ego's.... you're going to have HFY members on the defensive and innocent people get caught in the crossfire.

I wish it wasn't this way, but it is. I look forward to the day when all this silliness comes to an end.

[Sihing73]

I wish it wasn't this way, but it is. I look forward to the day when all this silliness comes to an end.

Hello,

One way to start down this path is to ignore the negativity and refuse to feed it. A sure way to deal with an offending person is to return kindness for goodness. Like the Bible says, this is like heaping hot coals upon his head.

Seems to me that to respond without animosity and anger or defensiveness would lend more credence to ones position. Everyone will have differences of opinion but when you permit someone else to make you respond in a certain way, don't you really give them a measure of control over you???

[UKBBC]

I fail to see why a civil response can't be:

"Thanks for asking. Yes, we have move X in form Y and we apply in manner Z. How do you guys do yours?"

But then, that may be too easy....

[JPinAZ]

Hello all - Sorry to see how this thread turned out (and started).

no tricks or bait and switch-black and white-yes or no please...
Does HFY have a Gwai ma section in their Biu Jee form?

IMO, when I first read this (regardless WHO posts it - I don't know John), if he was 100% genuine in his question, and always has been, why even post the first half "no tricks or bait and switch-black and white-yes or no please..."?
It seemed to me he was trying to clear the air up front because of past performances of doing just this (tricks/bait & swtich). If not, why not just ask the question? To me, it seems like a bit of guilty concience to me (and I read this post before anyone else replied)

Then he writes exactly how he expects to be answered "black/white - yes/no" - doesn't leave much room for discussion either does it? To me, this really doesn't sound like someone that is genuinely out to have a conversation or after anything productive. And I'm trying to ignore all the HFY vs. TWC vs. the rest of the WC World crap - I really don't have time for that.

Now, I could be wrong in my first assumption, but why not just simply ask the question, or maybe even give a reason why up front? I can see where this might put someone on guard in posting on the thread.

Funny, before a HFY person even gave an answer (someone else did), this was posted:

Interesting, so does TWC. Sifu Ryan Kennedy from Toronto demonstates it here: http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/clips.asp

No offence inteded to the poster, but before someone from HFY even gave an answer, a comparison between HFY & TWC is already being made. Now, I realize that it wasn't John that posted this, but how does this look?

Regards,
Jonathan

[drleungjohn]

Yes-you are paranoid---that's the price of being in a secret society,triad,tong,cell group,gang,mafia whatever

Ego-were was the ego in a question?
I wrote it like that to avoid all this bs-you you guys didn't take it like that-sorry an too bad-really

My respect for HFY has nothing to do with my opinion of what it is or where it comes from-that's called maturity
My respect for it and Gee sifu kept me quiet and away from this nonsense for years-that's called being a stand up guy and a gentleman-

As for Bill Mason-so you are saying that I don't know enough about TWC,THAT I AM NOT A FULLY TRAINED SIFU IN IT?

You use the seminar sifu experience to discredit my opinion,when you use Delroi and Mason's-from seminars!

And what qualifications Bill Mason have-he got his "TWC" from Phil Holder-mine came direct from Cheung sifu

Bill Mason said it was A DIFFERENT VERSION-so he is sited as an expert-?!?
Guys in YOUR OWN CAMP-whom out of RESPECT shall be nameless feel one got it from the other-MAKING IT THE SAME SYSTEM

Drew-I didn't read the book-but I did look at the pictures_LOL!

Canglong-you would foster more positive understanding by using terminology that people understand,and not heaven,man and earth flowers-you guys aren't he only game in town for understanding chinese,or using it to separate yourselves from the rest,or try to give yourself a superior sense of knowledge,pedigree or standing

AS AN ASIDE,FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE-I really don't think this marketing strategy is working too well for you--
let's move on---

[drleungjohn]

exactly-all I wanted was a yes or no answer-no discussion means no bs-
MY ATTEMPT AT TRYING TO KEEP IT SIMPLE WITH THE PREFACE OBVIOUSLY FAILED AND WAS READ INTO

Again-it's a shame

[JPinAZ]

exactly-all I wanted was a yes or no answer-no discussion means no bs-
MY ATTEMPT AT TRYING TO KEEP IT SIMPLE WITH THE PREFACE OBVIOUSLY FAILED AND WAS READ INTO

Again-it's a shame

John, then why state that you (john) aren't igoing to attempt any tricks or bait/switch? What brought this on, is this something you've done in the past? If not, then why not just state the balck/white yes/no?
Either way, IMO, the demand for a yes/no answer is a bit presumtious don't you think? Were you even interested in conversation?

[JPinAZ]

Ok, now things become a bit more clear to me.

--that's the price of being in a secret society,triad,tong,cell group,gang,mafia whatever

So, this is what you REALLY think of HFY and its members? I am beginning to understand the inital apprehention of Matt and Tony... Gang? Mafia? Triad?

My respect for HFY has nothing to do with my opinion of what it is or where it comes from-that's called maturity
My respect for it and Gee sifu kept me quiet and away from this nonsense for years-that's called being a stand up guy and a gentleman-

John, now that you are not quiet, what is your opinion? I ask because the impression you are giving makes me think the initial quesiton was a bit loaded now...

...you guys aren't he only game in town for understanding chinese,or using it to separate yourselves from the rest,or try to give yourself a superior sense of knowledge,pedigree or standing

So, that is your opinion, that we use some of the traditional chinese terms so we can give ourselves a "superior sense of knowledge,pedigree or standing"? Hmmm, you don't even know me, but now you assume that since I also am from HFY and also use these terms that this is the reason?!?!? I think you are assuming much too much here.
The picture is getting clearer indeed....

Without knowing anything about you from the start, I am thinking my initial assumption regarding you 'intentions' on the first post was right. You aren't interested in anything more than to start crap. And to think I was giving you the benifit of the doubt....

You obviously have a low opinion for the HFY lineage, as well as its members, so why do you even care what they have in thier system?

Jonathan

[anerlich]

No offence inteded to the poster,

LOL, you mean like "no bait and switch, honest question..." etc

but before someone from HFY even gave an answer, a comparison between HFY & TWC is already being made. Now, I realize that it wasn't John that posted this, but how does this look?

It sounded to me like the poster of the Ryan Kennedy clip might have thought it worthwhile pointing out that the section existed in TWC's form. After that, in the absence of answers, we had a discussion amongst various TWCers about the history of that section in TWC and who learned it when. Probably only interesting to TWCer's, but some discussions are like that. AS a TWCer, I found it interesting. And civil, up to that point.

If you, osprey and $5 Tony can see sinister overtones in that, you need therapy.

if you dislike that book so much that my KF brother bought for you... show some class and pass it on to someone else.

It may be possible he dislikes it so much he feels that NOT inflicting it on anyone else is the class act. Of course, second-guessing the motives of others makes you out to be a moron, a fact the HFY posters on this thread have manifestly demonstrated.

I didn't dislike the book, though I thought the sections on "internet historians" and "popular Wing Chun" were poorly disguised, undeserved. foolish and immature attacks on other lineages and historians. Anyone who wants my copy (I paid for it) is welcome to it, though they won't get it without an advisory warning on the content (take with a whole shaker of salt).

If you guys didn't jump all over anyone that posts anything + or -, about HFY, people would probably ignore and forget you. Perhaps this animosity comes out of fear of fading into irrelevance?

[Ultimatewingchun]

It just never ends - the HFY "us against the world" mindset.

And the more it goes on - the more suspicious the HFY "phenomena" appears to be.

It's clearly the same system as TWC - there, I've said it again.

Certain differences around the edges - but basically the same exact system.

Period...and onto the next thread.

[CFT]

So, this is what you REALLY think of HFY and its members? I am beginning to understand the inital apprehention of Matt and Tony... Gang? Mafia? Triad?

Well, HFY claims to be the lineage holders for anti-Qing revolutionary WCK. Who else are the descendants of anti-Qing revolutionary organisations? The modern day triads - what is the "sam hup" in "Sam Hop Wui"? You see why people draw comparisons, even if they are incorrect?

Also the secrecy around proof of HFY lineage. OK you don't have an obligation to make the evidence public, but you can't then ask people to accept something they have not seen. Lineage should not be a matter of faith!

In this day and age who needs to be protected? The communist government in the PRC aren't clamping down on traditional martial artists any more - to the contrary in fact.

[Phil Redmond]

Funny, before a HFY person even gave an answer (someone else did), this was posted:



No offence inteded to the poster, but before someone from HFY even gave an answer, a comparison between HFY & TWC is already being made. Now, I realize that it wasn't John that posted this, but how does this look?

Regards,
Jonathan

Hello, I made that post just responding to someone who posted that there was a Gwai Mah in HFY Biu Jee. How did you perceive that as something bad? I've never made a negative post about you guys.

[JPinAZ]

Hello, I made that post just responding to someone who posted that there was a Gwai Mah in HFY Biu Jee. How did you percieve that as something bad? I've never made a negative post about you guys.

Sifu Phil,

I never said this was something bad. Nor did I intend to say that you ever said anything negative about HFY as far as I know. My point more-or-less was that no one from HFY even gave the answer prior to you posting a comparison. I believe it was M.r Punch being a smart a$$, and I pretty sure we all know he is not from HFY.

IMO, each system should stand on thier own, as should they all. But all too often comparisons are being made and people are saying & drawing conclusions that they (HFY/TWC) are the same - and mostly without the necessary experience in BOTH systems to draw any conclusions.

Curious what you found 'interesting' and what made you draw a comparison by saying "TWC has that too" - what does this mean to say? Like Matt pointed out, a lot of MA's have Gwai ma.
And I'm not trying to fight with you here, I am really trying to understand the point and have a conversation.

Jonathan