Martial Arts & Religion

[TenTigers]

ANNNND......Ever notice how many Jews are into Kung-Fu???
There's gotta be a connection there somewhere...
I mean besides the Chinese food.
"If there's one things Jews know, it's oppression.
-and where to get good Chinese food."
Neil Simon

[lkfmdc]

ANNNND......Ever notice how many Jews are into Kung-Fu???

other than you and me (and yeah later I found out Raul Ortiz) not that many that I know of

[TenTigers]

David Rogers, Alan Goldberg, quite a few of Yee's Hung-Ga Sifus, Howie Solow,
Bruce Leebowitz (of the Shalom Temple Beth-Isreal, star of "Enter the Dreidle,")
I think Uncle Norman C is Jewish...

[sanjuro_ronin]

I hate to be a "downer" and all

No you don't.

But the more Christian history you read, the more you learn that pretty much ALL of what is accepted in most versions is stuff made up a LONG TIME AFTER JESUS was teaching. Much of it was created for political purposes (the Roman/Byzantine emperors).

If you are referring to the later works of the likes of Origen, and Augustine and Eusebius, yes you are right, BUT theologically, they made some amazing opinions, ever read Augustine's view on Genesis?

Paul never met Jesus, and Jesus' brother STRONGLY disagreed with him

Outside of his vision, no he didn't met Jesus and that is made VERY clear by Luke in Acts and By Paul numerous times.
Yes, Paul and James disagreed and so did Paul and Peter.
James did liek to take his rather orthodox view of Judaisim and try to impose it on the emerging church, sometimes correctly and other times not so much.

Mark has very little actual info, yet is the closest we get (maybe 50 years after Jesus left us)

Mark wrote down notes and they were later "published" after his death by his Friends.
As a companion of Peter, part of his job was to write down things that Peter said.

Matthew is propaganda

Indeed.

Luke was written hundreds of years later by a "Greek" who didn't understand Judaism

No,not correct at all.

And John was a nasty anti-semite
__________________

Which John?
The apostle? the elder? Patmos John? or one of the writers of the GOJ?

None of this is new as you know, old debates and issues that have been addressed and re-addresed over the centuries.

[lkfmdc]

What isn't correct about what I said about Luke?

He was part of the "Greek" culture of the empire, and definitely not a Jew. Paul's decision to expand the church into the Greek speaking, non Jewish world had significant implications, one of course being people that didn't understand the teaching's Jewish roots didn't have the basic background info

As for James, he was clearly Jesus' brother, was his disciple and was in charge of the original group. There is a strong argument that he had a better understanding of what Jesus taught as opposed to Paul who had a "vision" yet never met nor studied under Jesus

[lkfmdc]

John of the NT, the gospel of John, it provided the theological justifications for the Nazis for example....

[sanjuro_ronin]

John of the NT, the gospel of John, it provided the theological justifications for the Nazis for example....

Ah well, if one looks for something with certain preconceived notions, one will find it, regardless of the original context.
Nazi's weren't Christians ( though I am sure many thought they were), Hitler certainly wasn't and the Nazi party went after any church or religion that opposed it.
If the passage that you are referring to is the one where "the jews" admit that the blood of Christ is on their hands and that of their decendants then yes, that is a very damaging verse in the GOJ.
Of course the "Jews" in question where the ruling party ( The sanhedrin) and NOT the Hebrew People.
They did Pay for it in 70AD ( according to some interpretations).
And since Christ was ressurected and not dead, I say "no harm no foul".
Besides, Jesus was a Jew, all the 1st and most of the 2nd generation disciples were still Jews so that would mean that they do were responsible?
Of course not.

But you do highlight the dangers of people allowing OTHERS to interpret "the word of God" for them.

[ShaolinDan]

ANNNND......Ever notice how many Jews are into Kung-Fu???
There's gotta be a connection there somewhere...
I mean besides the Chinese food.
"If there's one things Jews know, it's oppression.
-and where to get good Chinese food."
Neil Simon

There's a little community of archaic Jews somewhere in China...I don't know anything about them, but my mom had the coffee-table book. (which ought to answer the question about religious background, although these days I'm some kind of build-your-own Sufi/Taoist scramble.)

[TenTigers]

There's a little community of archaic Jews somewhere in China...I don't know anything about them, but my mom had the coffee-table book. (which ought to answer the question about religious background, although these days I'm some kind of build-your-own Sufi/Taoist scramble.)

Kaifeng Province. There is an entire Jewish settlement. Also Shanghai has one as well.

[A BIONIC LEG]

That is a WHOLE different thread Bro, LOL!
That said, we need to remember what Christ told his disciples: The Holy Spirit will teach you and what Peter said when Jesus asked if they were going to leave him too:
To WHOM would we go.
Christian salvation is about a person, Jesus, not a religion, not a group, no buildings or an organization, it is about Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Saviour.
I think that at one time the "organization" of the Word was crucial but not anymore.
Too many ( if not all) of Christianity's organizations have made it about THEM and not enough about Christ.
We are saved via God's grace, given freely to Us in our "underserving state", there is nothing we can do to be saved, it has been done for Us.
All that is required of Us is to give ourselves to Christ and allow the HS to live in Us, for Christ and Our Father to live in US and Us in them.
When we do that, we are compelled to give of that love to all those around us, NOT because we have to, NOT because it is required for salvation, but because the love of God, Christ and the HS that lives in Us makes as love all others as they love Us and we Love Them.

You're on point man but I do have to agree with Brule (don't want to get too far off topic) in that you cannot "forsake the meeting together." But at the same time you are also correct that a lot of today's Churches or individuals leading churches make it about them, that being said you cannot disregard the churches that are doing it right. I think it is sooo important that when looking for a church/temple/monastery, hell, (he he thats a little backwards) wherever you practice your religion that you research the teachings of said organization. Crap got off topic .

As far as the "Grace" thing... Preach on Preacher!!

So since the thread is about Martial Arts and Religion, would the term Sifu Preacher be redundant? just asking

[bawang]

Kaifeng Province. There is an entire Jewish settlement. Also Shanghai has one as well.

i read on the news the few kaifeng jews that get accepted to isreal are heavily discriminated against.

[David Jamieson]

A short interesting doc on Kaifeng Jews moving to Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edhtdoPukk0

[Hebrew Hammer]

Ah well, if one looks for something with certain preconceived notions, one will find it, regardless of the original context.
Nazi's weren't Christians ( though I am sure many thought they were), Hitler certainly wasn't and the Nazi party went after any church or religion that opposed it.
If the passage that you are referring to is the one where "the jews" admit that the blood of Christ is on their hands and that of their decendants then yes, that is a very damaging verse in the GOJ.
Of course the "Jews" in question where the ruling party ( The sanhedrin) and NOT the Hebrew People.
They did Pay for it in 70AD ( according to some interpretations).
And since Christ was ressurected and not dead, I say "no harm no foul".
Besides, Jesus was a Jew, all the 1st and most of the 2nd generation disciples were still Jews so that would mean that they do were responsible?
Of course not.

But you do highlight the dangers of people allowing OTHERS to interpret "the word of God" for them.

Well said Sanjuro, and it always amazes me why the Roman's always get a pass on this...weren't they the ones who tortured and crucified Jesus?

i read on the news the few kaifeng jews that get accepted to isreal are heavily discriminated against.

That's a blanket statement, I'm sure that some of them are discriminated against, anytime your introduce those '**** foreigners' you will get some of that but there are probably many more who welcome them as David's youtube vid showed.

A short interesting doc on Kaifeng Jews moving to Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edhtdoPukk0

Cool find Dave, thanks for posting this...there was a Discovery/Hist Channel special on the Lost Tribes of Israel, that tracked Jews from China, to India and all along the Eastern side of Africa.

Alas, ignorance is alive and well (if you couldn't tell by reading 'off topic'), I'm going to share a fairly recent conversation I had a party when this girl sees my Star of David:

Drunk Girl (college educated female sheriff deputy): Hey I didn't know you were Jewish?....Why did you guys kill Jesus?

Me: Uh...you know Jesus WAS Jewish and that the Romans killed him right?

Drunk Girl: yah, but why did you kill Jesus?

Me: I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure it was because he was asking stupid questions.

[A BIONIC LEG]

To turn the other cheek was not supplication at all, it was defiance.

In fact, the whole story of Jesus is about defiance.

Jesus defied the corrupt pharisees and he defied the corrupt Roman overlords.


David Jamieson;

Please understand I'm not taking jabs, you just really got the wheels turning. In fact if you were standing next to me it would smell like burnt tires and sulfer .
If Christ was about defiance then why did Paul take the time to state we need to sumit to those in athority?

Romans 13 NIV
Submission to Governing Authorities
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

However, I do understand that Paul was a Roman citizen and this could be considered as self serving of the time. But because he changed from persecuting (sp?) Christians and those that followed "the way" to preaching the very thing he said was herecy, I don't think that would be correct. Since Jesus said "pay to Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what is God's" inresponse to weather it is lawfull to pay taxed, they go hand in hand.

[A BIONIC LEG]

"life skills and Godly skills"

I think this is great example of Religion and MA going hand in hand. You don't present the belief until the belief presents itself.