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Thread: Martial Arts & Religion

  1. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    do you guys consider ch'an a religion??? i really dont see much difference between a monk of the temple mount and a shaolin monk... on a whole, i respect buddhism more than i respect christianity, but the monks are both essentially the same... there are far more similarities than there are differences... i dont see a problem mixing any religion with martial arts... when it really comes down to it it pretty impossible not to mix one aspect of your life with the others...
    Consider:
    re·li·gion
       /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
    –noun

    1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

    2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

    3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

    4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

    5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

    6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

    7.religions, Archaic . religious rites.

    8.Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
    Yes, zen buddhism is a religion. It is a religious order.

    Your question raised a point with me actually in that I believe there are many people who do not actually understand what religion is. It does not always necessarily involve the worship of a deity.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #587
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    Another MMA ministry

    "Right Cross" is a brilliant name for this school.
    Mixed Martial Arts Ministry
    Reported by: Sharon Chen
    Email: newstips@sandiego6.com
    Last Update: 7:34 am

    POINT LOMA – On the mat at the Stronghold Gym, 17-year old Josh Frohman is locked in a hold, “Push out, push out!” yells the coach. This is part of Frohman’s weekly training, “Punching, take-downs, I don’t usually do much wrestling.” But, this is more than athletic training, this session of Jiu Jitsu is much more spiritual.

    “Again, guys Right Cross Mixed Martial Arts is a ministry,” says Tommy Moseley to group of about 20 young men. “We want to reach out in the community and be a light, so invite your friends, bring guys that maybe don't ever go to church, bring them here to come train with us.”

    Right cross is actually one of many outreach programs at The Rock Church in San Diego, Right Cross is geared towards young men and those in the mixed Martial arts community. “San Diego's a big hot bed for Mixed Martial Arts,” said Moseley. “A lot of people they come to these because they don’t go to church, so it’s our one opportunity to be the church without actually coming to church.”

    But, could this ministry actually be a contradiction of the Bible? At the First United Methodist Church in San Diego, their lesson from Jesus is more peaceful, “He’s saying find some other means to draw people together so that we can relate to each other and not use violence if at all possible,” said Pastor Jim Standiford. While Standiford says he’s uncomfortable with the violent sport of mixed martial arts, he says he does understand why the Rock would have this type of ministry. “Churches use various means to reach various populations,” explains Standiford.

    He says the First United Methodist Church has a population of 2800, but they also continue to work on growing the population of the younger generations “we're trying things we haven't gone to Mixed Martial arts yet, but we are trying other things that will help people draw them into the life of the church.”

    Back at the gym, the grappling continues, “Actually if you look at the Bible pretty closely, there’s a lot of battles in there,” explains Moseley. “In Genesis Jacob actually wrestled with the Angel of the Lord, it's the only sport found in the bible, but they wrestled until they gave up.”

    As for Frohman, he says life is a battle and the way he sees it, Right Cross is his army of God with Jesus as their General, “That’s a role model for us, he didn’t give up and so we shouldn’t either.” Frohman adds he has no doubt that if the Son of God were on the mat, it would be one battle he would win, “I know he didn’t submit, because he died on the cross for our sins.”

    Right Cross has approximately 50 members and it’s still growing. The Rock in San Diego isn’t the only church turning to this type of ministry, it’s estimated roughly 700 out of 115,000 white evangelical churches nationwide also have mixed martial arts ministries. The sport is seen as a legitimate outreach tool by the youth ministry affiliate of the National Association of Evangelicals, which represents more than 45,000 churches.

    The Rock also has more than 100 different outreach programs for all segments of the population and age group ranging from eating disorders, to jazz band to even Rock Climbing… and that’s just to name a few.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  3. #588
    some people prefer that the church or temple is a place for religious practices/activities only.

    but some other social functions are also permissible

    such as dinner, dance, ping pong, basket ball or MA practice etc etc.

  4. #589
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    I got nothing I'm a practing Christian and from my studies of scripture I haven't found anything that promotes MA. However, when it comes to using it as a ministry tool I think it a great thing, "the method of ministring the gospel isnt sacred (sp?) however the message is."

    Disclaimer; for whoever runs this thread if you feel the need to delete this post I wont be offended.

    Here is the funny part, I have had a really crapy coupple of days (dealing with a particular person) and my spirit has been quite week (dont know how to put it in words). Anyways, I just spent roughly two hours reading this thread from the beginning, and between all the banter and Gene's post my spirt has been ministered to which has been an answer to prayer.

    Thank you very much Gene for starting this thread so many flippin years ago, if it doesn't go any further than this it surved a great purpose.

    A BIONIC LEG

  5. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by A BIONIC LEG View Post
    I got nothing I'm a practing Christian and from my studies of scripture I haven't found anything that promotes MA. However, when it comes to using it as a ministry tool I think it a great thing, "the method of ministring the gospel isnt sacred (sp?) however the message is."

    Disclaimer; for whoever runs this thread if you feel the need to delete this post I wont be offended.

    Here is the funny part, I have had a really crapy coupple of days (dealing with a particular person) and my spirit has been quite week (dont know how to put it in words). Anyways, I just spent roughly two hours reading this thread from the beginning, and between all the banter and Gene's post my spirt has been ministered to which has been an answer to prayer.

    Thank you very much Gene for starting this thread so many flippin years ago, if it doesn't go any further than this it surved a great purpose.

    A BIONIC LEG
    http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/34.htm

  6. #591
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    Talking

    Thanks Crane,

    It was pretty late in the day for me when I typed my post (0450 a.m.) and I still had 2 more hours to go at work! The funny thing is like I said was I had never really came accross anything that had promoted MA but when in fact scripture is filled with it! Look at the majority of King Davids accounts his frist major encounter was in mortal combat (the OG Mortal Kombat ) the even on to the listing of his mighty men. Ehud the left handed assasin, some dude I can remember the name to that fought an Egyptian that had a spear took his spear from him and killed him with it. I could go on and on. My point is, thank you for pointing that out.

    When it comes to "turning the other cheek" however, I heard an intresting study on that that makes me smile. It has nothing to do with taking a punch or letting your enemy use us as a punching bag. On the contary from what I understand in Jewish culture if you wanted to insult someone with a slap to the face you would use the inside of your "clean" hand, that is the right hand allowing you to slap the left side of the face. Turning the other cheek to them would force them to either use their left hand (the one used for wipeing ) or the back side of their right hand either way they would be causing insult to themselves.

    Just food for thought.

  7. #592
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    Karate Minister

    Ministry opportunities knock on Scota's door
    By Abe Hardesty • City People writer • Published: March 02. 2011 10:56AM

    When Joe Scota is asked how he turned a Philadelphia-area sales job into the ideal hobby/profession/ministry in South Carolina, he's ready with a quick reply.

    “Prayer,” says the martial-arts instructor, who holds a fourth-degree black belt in karate.

    “I have a job I love, one that started as a hobby, and it gives me great opportunities to minister to people,” says Scota. “It really is the answer to prayer, and it's a great blessing.”

    Scota's venture into martial arts began 23 years ago as a way to spend quality time with his 9-year-old son. His son began taking lessons in the Philadelphia suburb of Landsdowne in February 1988; Joe and daughter Nadine began a month later.

    Scota, 32 at the time, progressed quickly. Within two years, he had earned a brown belt and, under instructor Dan Pope, had learned much about the basics of karate and the basics of Christianity. He began reading a chapter of the Bible each day.

    “One day, he (Pope) asked if I was ready for the next step: a personal relationship with the Lord,” Scota recalls. “I prayed that day in his office and began having that personal relationship.”

    “Things started to happen,” says Scota, a floor-covering salesman who at the time had spent his entire life in eastern Pennsylvania.

    After much prayer about the direction of his life, Scota was reading a book that listed the top 50 places in America to live — and it included Greenville. It also mentioned that two of its high schools, Riverside and Eastside, ranked among the nation's top 10 percent.

    Scota applied for a transfer to Greenville, and relocated here in 1993. For the next seven years, he worked in sales while teaching karate part-time. In 2000, he made karate a full-time venture.

    “I know I'm doing what the Lord wants me to do. I never thought it would turn out this way,” says Scota.

    As he teaches a skill that requires a great deal of personal discipline, Scota often is reminded that his work is a ministry. The karate, Scota says, opens doors of communication.

    Sometimes, the doors open literally. Scota was watching TV at home on a recent Friday night when he got a visit from a student who was having a major disagreement with his parents.

    “I was able to talk to him about what the Bible says about honoring his parents,” Scota says.

    A few months earlier, a parent of one of the Scota Karate students came to his home, informing Scota that the son had left home after a dispute.

    “When I'm able to help a student or a parent like that, it reminds me that if I keep the faith and read the word, what I'm doing can make a difference to someone when they're at a low point. That's God's way of lifting me back up.”

    Scota, 55, is an active member at Taylors First Baptist Church, where he was baptized 15 years ago at age 40.

    “The Bible gives you great advice on raising kids. I wish I had this kind of advice when I was raising my kids,” says Scota.

    “The world is continually telling these kids, ‘Acquire material things and you'll be happy.' The world tells them everything except, ‘Listen to your parents and be in the Word of God,' ” Scota says.

    “I'm not preaching in every class, but I've got to tell them the things in life that will make you strong,” Scota says. “That's the reason three crowns are part of my business logo — spiritual growth is an important part of the process.

    “Coaching young people is a responsibility. It's not about kicking and punching — it's about teaching life skills and Godly skills.”

    Scota leads a team of seven Scota Karate Academy instructors, which includes his wife, Lisa. He usually has about 180 active students.

    “This is where God has me, a place where I can serve Him.”
    "life skills and Godly skills"
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  8. #593
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    @a bionic leg -

    your assessment falls in line with religious studies and religious scholars.
    To turn the other cheek was not supplication at all, it was defiance.

    In fact, the whole story of Jesus is about defiance.

    Jesus defied the corrupt pharisees and he defied the corrupt Roman overlords.

    Jesus wrote the original bobby mcgee "freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose".
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #594
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    David Jamieson,

    I'm a little confused how was Jesus about defiance? I can understand the statement about defiance tward the teachers of the law but how was he defiant tward the Roman government.

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by A BIONIC LEG View Post
    David Jamieson,

    I'm a little confused how was Jesus about defiance? I can understand the statement about defiance tward the teachers of the law but how was he defiant tward the Roman government.
    Jesus lived in Judea during the Messianic period as prophesied. Romans were conquerors and had Herod, the king at the time on their payroll. the teachings of Jesus were subversive to Roman law in their demand for equality, which is what the whole turn the other cheek is about. Defiance.

    Force the other person to break the laws as outlined in the Tanakh and be equal for all men are. This is/was at the time a huge act of defiance. You simply did not ask for equality from the Romans. Especially if you were a conquered land.

    One of the very interesting things about Christianity is that many of it's adherence have no idea about the cultural context of Jesus being a rabbi in the messianic period.

    Many Christians are unaware that Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew and a rabbi at that and he taught the Hebrew law.

    This is of course convenient and also explains a lot of the bizarre behaviours of Christianity and it's practicioners over the ages.

    anywho....
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  11. #596
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    Some Quotes

    "There was only one true Christian and he died on the cross" -Nietzsche

    "God's only excuse is that he doesn't exist." -Stendhal

    "Civilization will not have attained perfection until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest." -Zola (attributed)

    ***
    Where's the Scientology martial arts stories? Thats what I want to see.

    Next time I'm in Los Feliz (aka L. Ron Hubbard adjacent) maybe I'll stop by their "temple"(?) or whatever. Actually, no. I might end up in a billion year long contract.

    Maybe the SeaOrg members are trained in some weird fantasy combat arts. I imagine it resembling something like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    This is not a veiled request for compliments

    The short story is I did 325# for one set of 1 rep.

    1) Does this sound gifted, or just lucky?

  12. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Jesus lived in Judea during the Messianic period as prophesied. Romans were conquerors and had Herod, the king at the time on their payroll. the teachings of Jesus were subversive to Roman law in their demand for equality, which is what the whole turn the other cheek is about. Defiance.

    Force the other person to break the laws as outlined in the Tanakh and be equal for all men are. This is/was at the time a huge act of defiance. You simply did not ask for equality from the Romans. Especially if you were a conquered land.

    One of the very interesting things about Christianity is that many of it's adherence have no idea about the cultural context of Jesus being a rabbi in the messianic period.

    Many Christians are unaware that Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew and a rabbi at that and he taught the Hebrew law.

    This is of course convenient and also explains a lot of the bizarre behaviours of Christianity and it's practicioners over the ages.

    anywho....

    This is good stuff man you got me thinking and reaserching... with that being said, first things first...

    he he, dude, of course he wasn't a Christian the term "Christian" was used to describe a follower of "the way" (as described by Paul) or followers of Christ. So by that definition, no he wasn't I am in full agreement.

    I wouldn't agree however that he was a rabbi in that as a child he did not meet the requirements set by the teachers of the law, which is why he followed in his fathers foot steps as a carpenter. I do find it intresting that he is refered to only twice (I have to go back and check) as "the son of Joseph the carpentar" every other time he was refered to as rabi or teacher. So I can understand why someone would say that he was a rabbi.

    Are you talking about the Jews in "their demand for equality"?

    "Force the other person to break the laws as outlined in the Tanakh and be equal for all men are." Other than the issues about the sabboth (healing on the sabboth and deciples breaking off heads of wheat because they were hungry) what laws outlined in the Tanakh did he tell them to break.

    Could you send me some links so I can research this more you've got me very intregued?

  13. #598
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    Jesus was not defiant he was obedient

    Hello,

    I would have to disagree that Jesus was one who taught defiance. His teachings were that one should be obedient to the Lord and follow his commandments.

    The Jewish people were looking for the Messiah to be a military leader who would overthrow their conquerors and restore the nation. Jesus made it clear that his Kingdom was not of this world.

    I find it interesting, considering the assertion that Jesus taught defiance, that the Romans, Pilate, wanted to release Jesus. It was not the Romans who called for his death but the Jewish people. The Romans found no reason to kill him but the Jews called for his death because he claimed to be the Son of God.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  14. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Hello,

    I would have to disagree that Jesus was one who taught defiance. His teachings were that one should be obedient to the Lord and follow his commandments.

    The Jewish people were looking for the Messiah to be a military leader who would overthrow their conquerors and restore the nation. Jesus made it clear that his Kingdom was not of this world.

    I find it interesting, considering the assertion that Jesus taught defiance, that the Romans, Pilate, wanted to release Jesus. It was not the Romans who called for his death but the Jewish people. The Romans found no reason to kill him but the Jews called for his death because he claimed to be the Son of God.
    interesting perspective.

    Obedience to the lord is not of this realm either really. Jesus taught. In a cultural context and by the fact that he taught in the temple itself makes clear the fact that he couldn't be anything but a Rabbi and that perhaps as a boy he worked wood, but he certainly didn't as a man by all accounts.

    There were at the time of Jesus, hundreds if not thousands claiming to be the messiah and carrying out all sorts of rituals and such to make it clear. John the Baptist was the most noted of these in Judea at the time and when he more or less said "hey, it's not me, it's this guy", the carpenter gig was over.

    The Romans were dealing with rebellion that the King could not handle. The Romans were the Law and it was under their law that Jesus was crucified. the Pharisees, not "the Jews" are who brought the charges against Jesus. It was roman nails, and roman soldiers who crucified him, tortured him and so on.

    It doesn't make sense to blame Judaism. In fact, it doesn't make any sense to blame at all in a religious sense because someone had to kill him for him to have died for your sins. Hence the controversy on the gnostic Judas gospel where he is referred to as the only one of the disciples to be of the holy generation.

    consider that god being all knowing would have to orchestrate all events that led to Jesus' crucifixion. It was planned and Judas was privy to the plan.

    This is why i find it odd when Christians speak of vengeance and such things. It is completely not in keeping with the spirit of Christianity!
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  15. #600
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    Hello David,

    First, I do not blame Judiams nor the Jews for Christs death. As you pointed out, it was all part of the greater plan. Death by Crucification was the end result of all that Jesus' life was leading up to.

    You know it is interesting to hear people claim Jesus was a Prophet or a Rabbi. Since he mad the claim that he was the Son of God he could be neither.

    Based on that claim alone there are only three possibilities:

    1) Jesus was a liar
    2) Jesus was crazy or insane
    3) Jesus was who he claimed to be; the Son of God.

    By making the claim of being the Son of God Jesus, if it were not true, was a blasphemer and therefore could not be considered a Rabbi or Teacher under the Jewish Law.

    I do agree that Vengence is not a Christian teaching. I also accept the fact that none of us are perfect so we all are apt to make mistakes. I know I make some big ones

    The Romans were an instrument in the grand design not the orchestrators, IMHO.
    Jesus taught that one should be subject to the Government and in his time such Government was the Roman Empire. That is not to say that it is never right to fight against an oppresive regime. To my thinking it all comes down to ones motivation and reason for doing so.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

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