Martial Arts & Religion

[Syn7]

That is such bull****.

That just opens the doors to make up **** as you go along, and if someone disagrees, you tell them that's just that particular reality.

If I shoot you in the head, you die. That's reality. No argument, no dispute. You = dead.

If I drop a piano on you from atop a building...you die. No discussion of reality or any of that nonsense. You die.

Word to your moms!

[Scott R. Brown]

Wow, a lot of assumptions in there. You have no idea what I know about spirituality or what books I've read or what leaders or scholars I have engaged with. I never actually gave you much of an opinion for you to even run with.
Because I question your knowledge of physics you in turn question my knowledge of god? wtf? I based my words on what you wrote, not what I think you may or may not know about physics. You may know a ton about some things, but you have made wrong statements about black holes. In turn you have decided I know nothing about god because you think I don't believe in one. You made a huge assumption and then made more assumptions based on that assumption. I don't know why I even bother answering this sh1t. What's the point, right. You've obviously made up your mind and no matter what is said I just don't see you backing down from anything.

I'm a realistic person, my views change accordingly as new data is gathered. Some views remain unchanged because of no new data, some change daily, hourly. Depends what we're talking about.

Oh and for the record, "uh they are black holes nothing escapes from them." is also an incorrect statement.

Yeah I know, radio waves escape from them, and I believe protons or something too, you missed the metaphor completely, let it go!

[Syn7]

Yeah I know, radio waves escape from them, and I believe protons or something too, you missed the metaphor completely, let it go!

Oh I understand what you tried to say from the get go. It wasn't very complicated. Quite simple actually. I just said it wasn't the same thing and you made some statements that were not factual, which you now partly admit. Why would you assume that I missed your "metaphor". How would you know what I do or do not understand when I haven't given any indication either way? Actually that is not true, I demonstrated I understood your intent by showing you how it was an incorrect statement. And you never did show me the link between me criticizing your choice of words(not you, get over it) regarding the physics end of your phrase and how that relates to me not having learned enough about god. Whatever tho, why am I even responding. You seem to need the last word tho, so go ahead and have it. I think I'm done with all the straw man bullsh1t.

[SPJ]

spiritual pursuits

it is based on direct experiences by living your life.

I do not mix fighting skills pursuits.

with spiritual pursuits.

[White_Ape]

Actually you are criticizing. And that's fine.

Maybe people simply enjoy spirited discussion and feel strongly about certain topics.

Awesome! Me too!

Oftentimes it leads to further investigation in a topic as people seek greater depth in the justifications of their arguments.

I guess if the only thing to actually come from conversations like these is a strengthening of ones own beliefs, then its probably a good thing.
I probably shouldn't have said anything, I was in a grumpy mood to begin with.

So you are the arbiter of what topics are okay to discuss and the proper ways to discuss them?
Who defines progress? You? Progress from what?

Negative sir. Not the arbiter. I am a moderator on another forum (non MA related) and we have a 'religion' section for any threads dealing with religious debates. I call it "the cage" because there is really no moderation. Posters are warned beforehand though.
I guess it just seems pointless to debate religious beliefs, if you believe in something deeply that is. I know no one could persuade me of my beliefs.
But you're right, its good entertainment, and nice to see others perspectives.

[rett]

I am not criticizing anyone at all. I am just saying I think its funny why these threads come about, and are usually all about trying to justify what you believe in and discredit what the others believe in.
There is nothing wrong at all with questioning why things are the way they are, being curious and seeking an answer..but most of the time threads like these aren't necessarily about seeking knowledge, its more about trying to display your own knowledge, seem as smart as you can and try to discredit someone you don't agree with....even if its done tactfully.
I don't see how this is progress.
It does make for good entertainment though. I was in a bit of a mood last night, hence the rant. My apologies

I have to grant you that. It's fun letting our egos out to play.

[rett]

Oh and for the record, "uh they are black holes nothing escapes from them." is also an incorrect statement.

Isn't the view nowadays that they gradually evaporate?

[rett]

spiritual pursuits

it is based on direct experiences by living your life.

I do not mix fighting skills pursuits.

with spiritual pursuits.

Makes a lot of sense what you're saying.

Maybe it goes back to how China has a fabric of cultures. The different religions are seen as cultures, with their own food, conventions of dress, rituals. (correct me if I'm wrong) So you get buddhists, muslims, daoists whatever often in their own villages, and they happened to practice martial arts one way or another. This eventually got called "buddhist martial arts" or "muslim martial arts" referring to the cultural group. Finally it got conflated with spiritual pursuits. For example moving "mindfulness of the body" in connection with Buddhism.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Too busy atm to respond to everyone but...

Its wonderful this self defense mechanism of religion, the ability to hijack every natural occurrence and throw it under the umbrella of divine will, every wonder of human experience and claim it as "spiritual." Its also utter BS. And considering how offensive I find such thievery to be, that's about as polite as I can put it.

You cling to tightly to a middle man that really has no use in the story. The fact is, events go on without any necessity to include a mystical being. If there is a god, its a lazy POS that serves no viable faculty in the order of things.

Cut out the middle man.

While I admire the passion I find it misplaced.
Sorry.
As someone with a Bach in Mech Engineering AND working on my Bach in Theology I know very well that sceince and faith can exist very well and have done so for ages before and after the "so called enlightenment".
Fact is the the typical "Sunday School" view of religion that most people have ( and this is not an insult mind you, but a statement of fact and all the google in the world won't change it) is but a small glimps into what Theology and historical religion is.
I myself was shocked as to how much I THOUGHT I knew and how LITTLE I discoverd I knew about theology and religion.

I submit to you that you have all the reason AND none of the reason to feel that what about God.

That said, there is NO reason to attack ANYONE's personal deity, even more so if you don't believe that deity even exists.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yes, but can you remember how the song goes?

I have two girls aged 8 and 4, what do you think?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am not trying to come off with a "superiour attitude" in regards to what people THINK they know about religion and theology, far from that.
Before I even took my first course in Theology I did tons of searching and reading on the net and it was a rude awakening to see that not only were NONE of these issues "new" but all had been answered in various ways over the centuries ( whether one agrees with the answers is another matter).
It was an even further rude awakening to get even more insight over the last couple of years as the course and reading progressed.
I can tell you that I was shocked when I saw many drop out because what was being taught didn't mesh with their "preconceived" notions form their "sunday school" theology.
Fact is that the majority of what they knew ( and what is on the net) is based on that very superfical understanding of judeo-christian religions that we/they have been exposed to and view as "gospel".
The whole notion of other views and historical aspects to theology didn't even occur to them, some even had issues with Jesus being Jewish !

My point is that a correct grasp of theology is NOT something we get by reading some articles on the net, especialy only those that we agree with by the way, nor is it something that we can grasp with "Sundat school" teachings.

For the vast majority of believers (and skeptics) that is irrelevant as they are happy to believe ( or not) and go on with their lives.
But for others, like myself, we need more.

[ShaolinDan]

The word 'God' does funny things to people's heads in the West.
I can talk about the Tao, or Zen, or the divine, or spirit, etc., all day long with my best friend...as soon as I refer to any of that as 'God' his eyes will glaze over and he stops connecting with it...it's like an allergy or something.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The word 'God' does funny things to people's heads in the West.
I can talk about the Tao, or Zen, or the divine, or spirit, etc., all day long with my best friend...as soon as I refer to any of that as 'God' his eyes will glaze over and he stops connecting with it...it's like an allergy or something.

True, because when people think "GOD" they think of some Westboro Baptist weirdo thumping his bible and saying all gays will burn in hell.
Which has zero to do about God and everything to do about the idiot spewing hate at the top of his lungs.
God needs a better publicist.

[ShaolinDan]

Lol. God's publicist is beauty, at least IMO.

Know I'm not gonna change anyone's mind EVER...
But I find it inconceivable that nothingness would arrange itself into the kind of complexity that allows for what we have here, without something to drive it.

[wenshu]

You have to admit. This is a pretty laid back discussion for one about religion.

I hear you Sanjuro. I studied some Theology when I first started college. From what I recall the approach is closer to sociology.