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Thread: Martial Arts & Religion

  1. #961
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    when you speak of mind Scott, are you speaking of only your own?
    Mind generically, and its function.

  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    Mind generically, and its function.
    I don't think I understand what you mean by mind.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I don't think I understand what you mean by mind.
    That "something" which creates, perceives and interprets phenomena!

  4. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    Unfortunately your impression of the reality that exists separate of your experience of it may only be demonstrated to exist by a mind. And that experience, that other mind, is still subjectively based.

    Nothing can be proven to exist separate from mind. Because it is mind that determines what exists or not, and mind determines the rules of what is used to prove what exists or does not. Without mind, nothing can exist and mind is subjectively based.


    Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes. Signatures of all things I am here to read, seaspawn and seawrack, the nearing tide, that rusty boot. Snotgreen, bluesilver, rust: coloured signs. Limits of the diaphane. But he adds: in bodies. Then he was aware of them bodies before of them coloured. How? By knocking his sconce against them, sure. Go easy. Bald he was and a millionaire, maestro di color che sanno. Limit of the diaphane in. Why in? Diaphane, adiaphane. If you can put your five fingers through it it is a gate, if not a door. Shut your eyes and see.

    Stephen closed his eyes to hear his boots crush crackling wrack and shells. You are walking through it howsomever. I am, a stride at a time. A very short space of time through very short times of space. Five, six: the nacheinander. Exactly: and that is the ineluctable modality of the audible. Open your eyes. No. Jesus! If I fell over a cliff that beetles o'er his base, fell through the nebeneinander ineluctably! I am getting on nicely in the dark. My ash sword hangs at my side. Tap with it: they do. My two feet in his boots are at the ends of his legs, nebeneinander. Sounds solid: made by the mallet of Los Demiurgos. Am I walking into eternity along Sandymount strand? Crush, crack, crick, crick. Wild sea money. Dominie Deasy kens them a'. Won't you come to Sandymount, Madeline the mare?

    Rhythm begins, you see. I hear. Acatalectic tetrameter of iambs marching. No, agallop: deline the mare.

    Open your eyes now. I will. One moment. Has all vanished since? If I open and am for ever in the black adiaphane. Basta! I will see if I can see.

    See now. There all the time without you: and ever shall be, world without end.

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4300/....htm#2H_4_0003

  5. #965
    `Twas brillig,and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe.

  6. #966
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    the past few pages have kinda reminded me of the old philosophical debate "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

    The possibility of unperceived existence
    Main article: George Berkeley

    Can something exist without being perceived? - Quoted from Pamela Jackson - e.g."is sound only sound if a person hears it?" The most immediate philosophical topic that the riddle introduces involves the existence of the tree (and the sound it produces) outside of human perception. If no one is around to see, hear, touch or smell the tree, how could it be said to exist? What is it to say that it exists when such an existence is unknown? Of course, from a scientific viewpoint, it exists.[6] It is human beings that are able to perceive it.[6] George Berkeley in the 18th century developed subjective idealism, a metaphysical theory to respond to these questions, coined famously as "to be is to be perceived". Today meta-physicians are split. According to substance theory, a substance is distinct from its properties, while according to bundle theory, an object is merely its sense data. The tree will not make a sound.

    I know I know, you are thinking "but we can see, hear, and feel trees, but we can't see, hear, feel God."
    But I think its a similar principal. If you believe in it, and Perceive it to be real, then it is real to you Just because we can't see or have any physical evidence of a higher being, doesn't necessarily mean said being does not exist.
    But as I have said before, these debates are really pointless and only good for entertainment, ego battles, and the occasional "hmmm...didn't know that". Otherwise, faith is faith, and if you can be dissuaded from your faith, it wasn't strong enough to begin with
    I came out of a Cave.
    I stole a Peach.
    I peeped at a feast over there......and over there.....

  7. #967
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    i pray to jesus for strong to shoot the nuclear missile bomb to the brown peoples

    Honorary African American
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat The Lost Art of Anal Destruction™®LLC .
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  8. #968
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    Science and spirituality strive to the same goal. To discover the truth of the universe and our place in it.

    You can actively pursue this truth through scientific research or spiritual cultivation.

    Or you can go about your life and put your Faith in what others say. It depends what is important to you.


    If you actively pursue, then it is necessary that you do not put faith in accepted ideas, it is necessary that you question everything. Both in science and spirituality. Sure you can stand on the shoulders of giants, but test their sturdiness first.

    If you do not pursue the truth then for the peace of mind it may be necessary that you put faith in things. Put faith in accepted science, put faith in a religion.


    Kung Fu is a form of cultivation. It is seeking the truth. I think this is reflected in Zen, the 'religion' that has no scriptures and relies on intuition. I think more conventional religions could only hinder ones progress through Wushu.

  9. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Science and spirituality strive to the same goal. To discover the truth of the universe and our place in it.

    You can actively pursue this truth through scientific research or spiritual cultivation.

    Or you can go about your life and put your Faith in what others say. It depends what is important to you.


    If you actively pursue, then it is necessary that you do not put faith in accepted ideas, it is necessary that you question everything. Both in science and spirituality. Sure you can stand on the shoulders of giants, but test their sturdiness first.

    If you do not pursue the truth then for the peace of mind it may be necessary that you put faith in things. Put faith in accepted science, put faith in a religion.


    Kung Fu is a form of cultivation. It is seeking the truth. I think this is reflected in Zen, the 'religion' that has no scriptures and relies on intuition. I think more conventional religions could only hinder ones progress through Wushu.
    I do not agree with this post. Science and Spirituality are not really on the same plain of mind or reality at all.

    Spirituality observes but cannot site actual truth and depends on "belief".

    Science observes, measures and delineates, then hypothesizes, predicts, repeats and is proven as fact.

    Bottom line, the Human race has had it better off with a secular humanist scientific approach in the last 300 years than it did with a spiritual approach in the last 10,000.

    No religion has ever offered that.

    Spirituality is the way of pretending to know when one actually doesn't know anything at all.

    Don't get me wrong, I practice many things that are considered spiritual, but I do not look to those for answers to real world problems that can be solved with real world actions.

    an example being, prayer will not cure low grade cancer cells, but it can be demonstrated over and over again that medicine, discovered through the scientific process will cure it.

    Personal integrity, accountability, self responsibility. These are the hallmarks of a scientific approach.

    please forgive me for all that stuff I did that I shouldn't have is typical of the brand of spirituality. Spirituality is often a barrier to accountability, responsibility and has been shown to grind down personal integrity in others on many occasions.

    In short, spirituality is private musings regarding the unknown.
    Science is the pursuit of the facts and truth of those unknowns.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  10. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I do not agree with this post. Science and Spirituality are not really on the same plain of mind or reality at all.

    Spirituality observes but cannot site actual truth and depends on "belief".

    In short, spirituality is private musings regarding the unknown.
    Science is the pursuit of the facts and truth of those unknowns.
    Your confusing spirituality with belief. I'm trying to separate them.

    Spirituality is indeed a search for the truth. The truth of our human nature. This is less tangible to science.

    Much truth has been interpreted from intuition alone. Self Knowledge is truth. Understanding and realising why you feel the way you feel about things. This is uncovering truth. It is achieved through pure contemplation. understanding who you are, your motivations etc. This is spirituality.

    Science also tells us truth, truth about the observable universe. If science was strong enough it could explain everything, but we are not at that stage.

    Spirituality allows us to enter the mind without other tools as we exist within the mind in the first place.

    One looks outside, the other in, both look for the same thing. One begats the other, one is Yin to the others Yang.

  11. #971
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    I agree that science and religion are apples and oranges.
    But your comment on curing low grade cancer cells, and please don't think I'm attacking your comment or whatever, but its been proven that people who believe they will get better (via prayer, will power, positive thinking, meditation, whatever) have a much higher chance of healing and/or going into remission. This, scientifically, can be called a form of the Placebo effect. However, to many, its a miracle. So honestly, science can explain away most things "supernatural", but what is really important is what you feel in your own heart. And that is the exact reason that science and religion go together like oil and water. One relies on physical evidence, and the other thrives on the lack of it.


    and as far as religion grinding down personal integrity, I disagree. I understand what you are saying as far as "praying away the sin" and the train of thought that, its ok if I do wrong, I can always pray and be forgiven. But a person that truly follows their religion (as most religions go anyway) will strive to avoid "sin" and try to be a generally good person, therefore I believe raising their integrity. If indeed the mentality is "do what I want cause I'll be forgiven" then that person isn't a true follower of their religion. As I said, MOST religions strive to have their followers be prime examples and good people, as you do catch more flies with honey than vinegar
    I came out of a Cave.
    I stole a Peach.
    I peeped at a feast over there......and over there.....

  12. #972
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    A critical thinking classroom in college would rip this thread into a million pieces. And then do it again.
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

  13. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    A critical thinking classroom in college would rip this thread into a million pieces. And then do it again.

    I would bring the popcorn.
    I came out of a Cave.
    I stole a Peach.
    I peeped at a feast over there......and over there.....

  14. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    A critical thinking classroom in college would rip this thread into a million pieces. And then do it again.
    Yeah, they would rip it to pieces, but they wouldn't try and put it back together again. They wouldn't try to make their own suggestion. That's pretty easy to do. Most of the time I can destroy everything I said myself by myself, but in lieu of anything better to say....

  15. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Yeah, they would rip it to pieces, but they wouldn't try and put it back together again. They wouldn't try to make their own suggestion. That's pretty easy to do. Most of the time I can destroy everything I said myself by myself, but in lieu of anything better to say....
    They'd start with you, FYI...
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

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