Martial Arts & Religion

[kwaichang]

There were 2 main trees in the Garden of Eden, the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil and the tree of Life, In Revelation the Tree of Life returns as Jesus. It wasnt until the eating of the forbidden fruit that the 2 were cast out of Eden. They werent cast out because of the tree but for disobedience. They were forewarned. Until that time there was no time, or disease, the world was perfect. Under the protection of God. I have read the remarks of those on this thread and I feel you guys should stick to discussing something you "seem' to know like Martial arts. KC

[David Jamieson]

There were 2 main trees in the Garden of Eden, the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil and the tree of Life, In Revelation the Tree of Life returns as Jesus. It wasnt until the eating of the forbidden fruit that the 2 were cast out of Eden. They werent cast out because of the tree but for disobedience. They were forewarned. Until that time there was no time, or disease, the world was perfect. Under the protection of God. I have read the remarks of those on this thread and I feel you guys should stick to discussing something you "seem' to know like Martial arts. KC

Why would you say something like that when virtually all the written material in all religious documents are subject to constant interpretation and in fact across sects of the same religion are given to having entirely different meanings.
For instance, in your example from genesis, this is interpreted as:

Man began to eat a particular food that started his brain to grow, a neo cortex formed above his primal brain and abstract thought began to occur, reason, and finally...language. And with that, there was leaving eden.

Remember, in the beginning there was the word, and the word was god. This is often interpreted as word=language

also, consider that without language or the ability to communicate abstract concepts and ideas, none of us would be here communicating with each other.

[SanHeChuan]

There were 2 main trees in the Garden of Eden, the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil and the tree of Life, In Revelation the Tree of Life returns as Jesus. It wasnt until the eating of the forbidden fruit that the 2 were cast out of Eden. They werent cast out because of the tree but for disobedience. They were forewarned. Until that time there was no time, or disease, the world was perfect. Under the protection of God. I have read the remarks of those on this thread and I feel you guys should stick to discussing something you "seem' to know like Martial arts. KC

Forewarned? He said they would die that day, not get booted from eden. Liar!

If you maintain that GOD is Omnipotent then nothing happens that isn't what God wants. Satan then (or in this case the serpent) is just another tool that God uses to get what he wants. If Satan is Evil and he works at the behest of God, then wouldn't that make God evil as well.

If GOD created "man" to have free will then He would have to engineer a situation in which "man" could exercise that free will, Hence the tree of Knowledge. "Man's" ejection from Eden was not a punishment but the plan, If we had stayed in Eden immortal and perfectly obedient then we wouldn't be any better than angles.

It's just a story to explain why life is so hard if God is so Good.

Why do Christians insist on vilifying those things that drive the best changes. Like "Judas" if not for Judas, and the Jews, and the Romans Jesus would not have died for "man's" sins and we would all still be doomed to hell no matter what we did. And yet Judas is the bad guy, if not for him there would be no Christian religion. AND no heaven for you.

[kwaichang]

God also says if you are not of me then I do not know you and therefore you are not known bygod. Also die you will as up to that time death was not known. Truth is not open to interpretation. KC Who among you are Biblical scholars?? Non I would bet by your current statements.

[SanHeChuan]

Yeah well when are you going to start making valid points. Truth is Truth is not an argument, a biblical scholar should be able to do better than that. Not all biblical scholars actually believe in the bible.

I'm scholar enough to know that the tale of Jesus is based on older stories that are allegorical about the movement of the stars in the sky. If the stories of Jesus was told by other names before the actual time of Jesus like with Horus, Mithras, Krishna etc... then Jesus didn't actually live in the time you think.

I know that there are only four sources outside the bible that mention Jesus, one is a known fake and the other three only refer to the 'anointed one' and do not name Jesus.

But maybe the devil planted those stories along with dinosaur bones.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lie, they didn't die that day.

They lost not only their "innocence" (which died), but they lost their immortality.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why would you say something like that when virtually all the written material in all religious documents are subject to constant interpretation and in fact across sects of the same religion are given to having entirely different meanings.
For instance, in your example from genesis, this is interpreted as:

Man began to eat a particular food that started his brain to grow, a neo cortex formed above his primal brain and abstract thought began to occur, reason, and finally...language. And with that, there was leaving eden.

Remember, in the beginning there was the word, and the word was god. This is often interpreted as word=language

also, consider that without language or the ability to communicate abstract concepts and ideas, none of us would be here communicating with each other.

The "word" has also been interpreted as His "all powerful name" and as Jesus.

That is the beauty and th curse of the Bible, it is subject to interpretation and like all things subject to interpretation, it is subject to pre-disposed views of who is interpreting it at any given time.

[jacksawild]

Satan, in the Judeao-Christian-Islamic view is the embodiment of evil.
To be a true satanist is to aspire to the ideal of satan, which is to embody satan.

same as the true Christian will try and embody christ.

The christian will help the child while the satanist will rape the child.
the christian will shelter the man and the satanist would leave him to the elements


there are many who claim to be Christian, but are not, same as satanists. Hedonism, is sinful, but hardly satanic. Jesus hung with all the robbers and the hookers at the drinking holes himself. he had to, it was they who need the most help.

True Satanism is beyond mere hedonism.

Sorry, yeah I was talking about Mr. Lavey's satanism. Though I'm not aware that the 'true' satanism of which you speak actually exists outside of hollywood as any worshipper of Lucifer would be required to believe in God as well and defy Him.

It is interesting to note that it is only Christianity in which Satan is an enemy of God. In Islam he is a jinn, an intelligent being with free-will (unlike the angels) created from smokeless fire. His only enemy is mankind as he refused to bow down to Adam because he thought him inferior having been created from mud. God puts off his punishment until judgment day to allow him to tempt mankind.

In traditional Judaism he is rather friendly with God (see the book of Job) and as a creation of God cannot be evil for that would take away from God's perfection. He does not create evil but points it out to God, he is the divine courts chief prosecutor and only has power when evil is commited. In fact, the Book of Isaiah, Job, Ecclesiastes, and Deuteronomy all have passages in which God is credited for exercising sovereign control over both good and evil.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sorry, yeah I was talking about Mr. Lavey's satanism. Though I'm not aware that the 'true' satanism of which you speak actually exists outside of hollywood as any worshipper of Lucifer would be required to believe in God as well and defy Him.

It is interesting to note that it is only Christianity in which Satan is an enemy of God. In Islam he is a jinn, an intelligent being with free-will (unlike the angels) created from smokeless fire. His only enemy is mankind as he refused to bow down to Adam because he thought him inferior having been created from mud. God puts off his punishment until judgment day to allow him to tempt mankind.

In traditional Judaism he is rather friendly with God (see the book of Job) and as a creation of God cannot be evil for that would take away from God's perfection. He does not create evil but points it out to God, he is the divine courts chief prosecutor and only has power when evil is commited. In fact, the Book of Isaiah, Job, Ecclesiastes, and Deuteronomy all have passages in which God is credited for exercising sovereign control over both good and evil.

Interesting interpretation.

[kwaichang]

People will interpret things acording to their level of growth. The Bible also mentions to be wary of Man and his supposed knowledge that he finds vanity in. Truth is the base from which all interpretation springs. But until one reaches the source they are only supposing. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm an atheist but I actually like the Bible. Genesis is like a poor man's Vedas; some of the intermediary stories from Judges are like stories from the Three Kingdoms, and the parables of the Old Testament are rich with symbolism. I'm just not that big on the fanatical New Testament stuff, with the convert or die for all eternity BS of the Pauline hornswagglers that turn literary criticism into a universal categorical imperative.

Give me talking snakes, vengeful deities, and burning bushes anyday. I just wish they'd cut out that salvation and redemption crap. The Bible would have been much better if Jesus had talked to the fish instead of multiplying them, walked out on the water, and done battle with the great sea serpent of Babylon to reclaim the "snake-bound" wishing staff of Moses. Who knows, I might have remained a believer.....

[Lucas]

religions that dont have a healthy dose of good ol mythos to back them up are just boring anyhow.

[Shaolin Wookie]

It's the problem with Scientology, Christianity, and Mormonism--they actually believe the fables they tell.

[Lucas]

But what about the Heathens? Think they believe in the old gods for real?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Satan usually uses good things in life including desire of wisdom to lure people away from GOD.

the serpent lured Eve and Adam to eat the apples from the wisdom tree.

a lot temptations of beauty, wealth, power etc etc

we harm ourself by answering all our needs and wants in an excessive way

and lose the way of the dao, the way of the truth,--

There's actually a gnostic tradition that the Demiurge (an imperfect creator) created the earth and mankind, and thus was fallible and allowed for error. He represented an old patriarchal order of godhead, and Satan was actually Sophia--Wisdom, a female serpent. She came to Eden to free Adam and Eve and to open their minds to stir them to battle against the old patriarchal order of gods, represented by the Creator.

I like that version much better.