Martial Arts & Religion

[kfson]

WHAT???? you mean there are so called "Christians" out there that don't know / Live according to the "true" teachings of Christianity?????

Next, you'll tell me the Easter Bunny isn't Real!!!!!!!!!

What are the true teachings of Christianity? But before that, what is Christianity? Is it the religion the Roman Empire started? Could there be other modes of Christianity that are older than the Catholic Church and it's offshoots, those that were suppressed by the Catholic Church? Is it possible these earlier and suppressed forms of Christianity practiced a martial art?

[David Jamieson]

What are the true teachings of Christianity? But before that, what is Christianity? Is it the religion the Roman Empire started? Could there be other modes of Christianity that are older than the Catholic Church and it's offshoots, those that were suppressed by the Catholic Church? Is it possible these earlier and suppressed forms of Christianity practiced a martial art?

Christianity has a lot of different sects and churches, but ultimately, what it is is making the effort to live your life as close to the teachings of Jesus as expressed in the New Testament Gospels. The old testament serving as a foundation for ones moral compass and the new testament being the message of salvation.

Churches, priests, rituals, buildings, etc etc etc, don't matter really, they're mere trappings of the faith used to reinforce daily practice to those who need them.

[kfson]

Christianity has a lot of different sects and churches, but ultimately, what it is is making the effort to live your life as close to the teachings of Jesus as expressed in the New Testament Gospels. The old testament serving as a foundation for ones moral compass and the new testament being the message of salvation.

Churches, priests, rituals, buildings, etc etc etc, don't matter really, they're mere trappings of the faith used to reinforce daily practice to those who need them.

The Catholic Church culled and discarded certain "Christain" books during "The Council" in the 400's AD (I think). The messages for salvation are not the same.
One denied martial arts, the other practiced a kind of martial art.

[David Jamieson]

The Catholic Church culled and discarded certain "Christain" books during "The Council" in the 400's AD (I think). The messages for salvation are not the same.
One denied martial arts, the other practiced a kind of martial art.

The Catholic church is a church. What they do and how they practice christianity is their own thing. Despite their claims of ownership, that is easily deconstructed simply by reading scripture.

In other words, you can be a catholic and go to church and pay your tithe etc etc etc.

Or you can privately pray and live your life according to the guidelines as laid out in the gospels.

The books "culled" as you put it from Catholic doctrine doesn't mete out as "are lost".

The works of the Essenes, the Nasarenes, and so many other early Christians are available to scholars and there are many of the faith who are not roman catholic by any stretch of the word.

anyway, the Catholics do not hold the faith. They are one expression of what has happened with it though.

[kfson]

The Catholic church is a church. What they do and how they practice christianity is their own thing. Despite their claims of ownership, that is easily deconstructed simply by reading scripture.

In other words, you can be a catholic and go to church and pay your tithe etc etc etc.

Or you can privately pray and live your life according to the guidelines as laid out in the gospels.

The books "culled" as you put it from Catholic doctrine doesn't mete out as "are lost".

The works of the Essenes, the Nasarenes, and so many other early Christians are available to scholars and there are many of the faith who are not roman catholic by any stretch of the word.

anyway, the Catholics do not hold the faith. They are one expression of what has happened with it though.

Their claims of ownership is a forced faith to many and thereby open to deconstruction, as is now taking place.

Many books were sought out and destroyed by the Catholic Church. Yes, the remaining are available, as they resurface.

[David Jamieson]

Their claims of ownership is a forced faith to many and thereby open to deconstruction, as is now taking place.

Many books were sought out and destroyed by the Catholic Church. Yes, the remaining are available, as they resurface.

You will be treated as you allow others to treat you.

Yes, the yoke of the church, the temple, the mosque is laid around the necks of children everyday.

parent naturally want to instill their ways and beliefs into their children.
They do this with the best of intentions.

I hold nothing against any church. I hold nothing against Christians. Christian tenets and belief are actually quite beautiful and rich with deeper meaning. Same as any faith really.

the problems start when people seek to use these to their own ends. As have all churches in the name of their own well being and their own hierarchical structures etc etc.

churches are susceptible to the poisons of tribal thinking as well. NO doubt about it. Such is the folly of hairless apes dressed in pretty textiles.

[kfson]

You will be treated as you allow others to treat you.

Deconstruction of the Catholic Church applies no force, simply an alternative is shown that allows an exit.

[David Jamieson]

Deconstruction of the Catholic Church applies no force, simply an alternative is shown that allows an exit.

An exit that is difficult to make when one has been thoroughly initiated.

I would think it would be difficult to leave a church that you grew up in.

I would think there are many who after investing so many years into their church and faith would rather be hit by a meteor than to leave their belief construct behind.

I mean, look at the people who have wasted years with a phony ass kungfu teacher? They will never be persuaded that they have wasted their life. It's a point of honour to keep the veil on the mind at that point.

it takes courage to breath air and taste it for what it is instead of what you are told it is after all.

anyone who teaches you should be merely giving you tools and instruction on how to use said tools. The learning comes when you create something with those tools.

I believe this applies to all human endeavour.

[kfson]

An exit that is difficult to make when one has been thoroughly initiated.

I would think it would be difficult to leave a church that you grew up in.

I would think there are many who after investing so many years into their church and faith would rather be hit by a meteor than to leave their belief construct behind.

I mean, look at the people who have wasted years with a phony ass kungfu teacher? They will never be persuaded that they have wasted their life. It's a point of honour to keep the veil on the mind at that point.

it takes courage to breath air and taste it for what it is instead of what you are told it is after all.

anyone who teaches you should be merely giving you tools and instruction on how to use said tools. The learning comes when you create something with those tools.

I believe this applies to all human endeavour.

It's the job of some people in this life to help other's to gently remove the veil.

Isn't this a goal of many Chinese martial arts as well?

[David Jamieson]

It's the job of some people in this life to help other's to gently remove the veil.

Isn't this a goal of many Chinese martial arts as well?

Not from my perspective no.

The veil ultimately being removed only has value and depth of meaning if it is the wearer who takes it off to see. Not if someone else does it, because then it is one more manifestation of one person imposing their will on another.

One can persuade, but to do it for someone? No. Nobody learns anything when everything is done for them.

Ultimately, we are each responsible for all our success and all our failure.

[GeneChing]

MMA is Christian approved. Tai Chi is not.

Rector throws Tai Chi class out of church hall
A rector threw a Tai Chi class out of his church hall after ruling that the exercise was not compatible with Christianity.
Published: 11:42AM GMT 05 Mar 2010

The group had been meeting at St Marks Church in Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex, for years when Reverend Jonathan Frais suddenly served them a month's notice.

He said their sessions were "inappropriate on a Christian premises."

Instructor Richard Odell branded the decision "ridiculous", saying: "We have been here for quite a few years. It's insulting and effectively saying the church is now not prepared to tolerate our presence."

Jean Mills, a student, said: "Our classes focus on the health benefits of deep breathing and slow exercise. We all consider ourselves Christians with several of us regular churchgoers.

"For almost four years I have attended Tai Chi lessons and from the onset Mr Odell made it clear to us that he did not teach a religion."

Mr Frais said: "Tai Chi is a practice from the Taoist religion. Although the relaxation techniques are not teaching a different religion, it advocates practices that come from a different faith.

"It got to the point where it struck me as inappropriate on Christian premises for an expression of another religion to be hosted."

Tai Chi group barred from Bexhill church hall
Published Date:
04 March 2010
By Richard Gladstone
An exercise class has been left high and dry following a church minister's sudden decision to oust its members.

Members of the Tai Chi class, run by Richard Odell at St Marks Church hall in Little Common, were informed by letter by rector Jonathan Frais that they have to vacate on March 30 because he deemed the relaxation sessions 'inappropriate on a Christian premises'.

Mr Odell, who teaches the class of 12 people and has taught Tai Chi for 19 years, said: "We have been here for quite a few years. It's insulting and effectively saying the church is now not prepared to tolerate our presence.

"We are particularly angry about this. It's ridiculous.

"Some have written e-mails and letters to the rector saying this is totally wrong. He has even been invited to come to the class to see what we are all about but hasn't been. It's pretty extreme."

Jean Mills, one of the students who regularly goes to Mr Odell's class, said everyone was 'gutted' by the move.

She said: "We heard about this last week, saying we had a month to leave. We are now ringing around to find a new hall.

"Our classes focus on the health benefits of deep breathing and slow exercise which has improved our balance, lung capacity, has strengthened our muscles and helped our brains as we learn the exercise routines.

"We all consider ourselves Christians with several of us regular churchgoers."

Mrs Mills said the group had to use a cramped cabin for sessions while improvement works on St Marks Church hall were going on last year.

Another student, who wished not to be named, said she found the decision 'baffling'.

She said: "For almost four years I have attended Tai Chi lessons and from the onset Mr Odell made it clear to us that he did not teach a religion.

"The aim is to promote good health and well being and it does just that. In my own case I was encouraged to do so by both my GP and physiotherapist."

Mr Frais said: "Tai Chi is a practise from the Taoist religion and represents a way of finding peace, both mentally and spiritually different than that offered by the Christian faith.

"Although the relaxation techniques of Tai Chi are not teaching a different religion, it advocates practises that come from a different faith.

"I asked Mr Odell for a copy of his teaching methods and it was enough for me to start on a gentle learning curve about the origins of it (Tai Chi].

"It got to the point where it struck me that it is inappropriate on Christian premises for an expression of another religion to be hosted.

"I wish the group well in their relocation. Tai Chi classes are flourishing elsewhere and are much appreciated."

He said he had 'taken time' over his decision to ask the group to leave and did not want to be 'too hasty'.

Mr Frais said: "I have written to Mr Odell apologising for any misperceived discourtesy as that was never my intention."

If anyone has an alternative venue in Little Common for Mr Odell's class they can contact him on 07966709920.

[kfson]

Not from my perspective no.

The veil ultimately being removed only has value and depth of meaning if it is the wearer who takes it off to see. Not if someone else does it, because then it is one more manifestation of one person imposing their will on another.

One can persuade, but to do it for someone? No. Nobody learns anything when everything is done for them.

Ultimately, we are each responsible for all our success and all our failure.

That is not what I have read of at least one Buddhist sect. I don't have the source, but the reading was of this particular sect preferring to impart instantaneous enlightenment.

I will search for that source.

[Scott R. Brown]

That is not what I have read of at least one Buddhist sect. I don't have the source, but the reading was of this particular sect preferring to impart instantaneous enlightenment.

I will search for that source.

Regardless of what that one Buddhist sect has decided, or anyone else for that matter, no one can eat an orange for you in order for you to understand its taste! You must eat if yourself!

[kfson]

Regardless of what that one Buddhist sect has decided, or anyone else for that matter, no one can eat an orange for you in order for you to understand its taste! You must eat if yourself!

That is not true. One can manipulate another's mind in a way to free road blocks.

[Scott R. Brown]

That is not true. One can manipulate another's mind in a way to free road blocks.

You cannot know the taste of an orange unless you have eaten one, that is different than someone giving you money so you can buy one!

BTW: No one can manipulate your mind unless you allow them, it requires your conscious or unconscious agreement!