The Wing Chun stance

[monji112000]

I met a girl who trained with a macclone school that taught her to waddle forward in the stance and block groin kicks by squeezing her knees together...when she showed me and asked me to kick her it was all I could do not to laugh waddle waddle waddle kick me ! waddle waddle

what about teaching people to think?

[B-Rad]

Someone has mis-informed you do not push your hips in a drastic position.

Just to clarify the hips part:

http://www.kungfulife.com/archives/weight.JPG

Even that seems like over tucking to me.

[k gledhill]

what about teaching people to think?

?? teaching to think ?? I dont follow you.

[LoneTiger108]

Just to clarify the hips part:

http://www.kungfulife.com/archives/weight.JPG

Even that seems like over tucking to me.

I think you'll find that this way of leaning is only present to compensate the iron rings on Ip Mans Tan Sau!

I do not believe this stance is for "fighting".
In fighting, any stance depending on the situation is possible. Someone has mis-informed you do not push your hips in a drastic position. The stance should be natural.

You must believe! Honestly why is it so hard to imagine? Most people I know who have perservered have found their whole body re-align after a while, feeling somehthing along the lines of a replenishing effect.

I met a girl who trained with a macclone school that taught her to waddle forward in the stance and block groin kicks by squeezing her knees together...

I know this type of teaching. Sounds funny, but more akin to farming imho. You see, we're all talking of 'Kim Yeurng Ma' here (that's Gripping Goat Stance/Horse!) If your Sifu has ever used the 'shearing goats' example, you would have waddled across the floor in the early days! Nothing wrong with that either, as long as it's taught in context...

Has anyone here ever sheared a Goat?? It's not bloody easy!

[k gledhill]

It boils down to not having a real understanding of the system , and attempting to make the basic 'knees in stance' an application for self-defence purposes. Its a teacher attempting to fill the void of understanding with 'applications', rather than training positions that serve a clear purpose , only havent been explained , so they search for reasoning to strange positions to justify it to the poor student.

You can teach people the correct way to fight moving freely as a boxer day one, I do , only within our structure guidelines , and how they fall apart without training in real controlled fighting with me, THEN i show them using the stance and SLT as a time to develop attributes on ones own , and how to improve the requirements for freefighting , not redundant waddling . Trying to make a person waddle around using the stance as a self-defense act to recieving a kick to the groin is naieve and foolish and shows a level of understanding better than any words could....only a fool would do this. Would you waddle in front of a bulls charge ? In a fight the assumption is you would adopt a yjkym stance as the response !! [lmfaorotf icon unavailable]

[monji112000]

Just to clarify the hips part:

http://www.kungfulife.com/archives/weight.JPG

Even that seems like over tucking to me.

that doesn't clarify anything. A picture without the context means nothing. Instead you should look to feeling, and testing it. Once you understand what a solid horse feels like, you don't need to believe anyone.

IYou must believe! Honestly why is it so hard to imagine? Most people I know who have perservered have found their whole body re-align after a while, feeling somehthing along the lines of a replenishing effect.

The reason why I don't believe this stance is the best stance for a fight, is simple. I have tried many stances, and this one isn't the best. I could list many reasons, but its my personal observation. You don't need to stand exactly like this to use all the concepts. Just to drive the point I believe strongly that the normal wrestlers stance uses all the same concepts. Its all about meaning, and understanding not blindly following.

If you are hell bent on using the square stance then turn it so you are not completely open.

I do train with this stance, I'm not saying its a bad stance... only that its a tool for a purpose. Nobody hammers with a fork. So take the concepts and fight with a more natural stance. I believe strongly in the famous Ip Man saying " don't believe me, you must find out for yourself".

[AmanuJRY]

Just to clarify the hips part:

http://www.kungfulife.com/archives/weight.JPG

Even that seems like over tucking to me.

A view that helped me understand...

'Don't worry how much you 'tuck' you hips, rather concentrate on leading any movement with the center of mass.'

of course in stationary practice, like SNT, the movement is implied...therefor the 'tucking' of the hips.

at any rate it should feel natural to you.

[T.D.O]

i call it "the training stance" or "adductor stance", you train the adductor muscles agonistically...... so to me it's a training tool... not a fighting stance... but that's me, others in my class use it


i have the knees one fist distance apart (as i've read) and my sifu all way's ask's if i'm comfortable like that.... but i feel that i can get my whole foot on the ground, if it's more than one fist distance i feel as if i'm on the edge's of my feet.... but again that's me



but WTF do i know lol

[AmanuJRY]

i call it "the training stance" or "adductor stance", you train the adductor muscles agonistically...... so to me it's a training tool... not a fighting stance... but that's me, others in my class use it

True, the stance is more a platform for training than a fighting stance, but it does contain attributes you will use in a fighting stance....hence, why it's called a training stance.

[T.D.O]

agreed...


sorry "other's in my class use it as fighting stance" that should of read btw

[monji112000]

True, the stance is more a platform for training than a fighting stance, but it does contain attributes you will use in a fighting stance....hence, why it's called a training stance.

Its really about what your goal and what the situation is.

unless you hop you can't move with your legs equal, everyone must put one foot in front of the other. If you choose to just turn your horse, then a equal stance will work fine. I can see situations were turning the horse would be the only option.

The other problem is strategy. When I stand equal and I have my whole body square I open myself up ... have a large open target painted all over my body. My chest is exposed, my groin ect.. That doesn't mean that you will have the chance to prepare a stance..

I personally believe in the neutral stance for drills, simply becouse it forces you to forget what foot is forward. You become good at both orthodox and unorthodox.

[B-Rad]

I suppose some of this stuff you just have to feel first... and this guy doesn't waddle around in that stance If he did, or if he didn't have skills that I'd like to have, I wouldn't even consider training there He has some very good skills that I lack, which is why I'm interested in the classes. Previously, most of what I'd seen of Wing Chun application outside of movies was those awful Wing Chuners getting whooped on in those older fighting clips, and similar videos. This guy has real skill though. He's well conditioned, has good power and speed, and can trap, parry, and stick well.

[couch]

True, the stance is more a platform for training than a fighting stance, but it does contain attributes you will use in a fighting stance....hence, why it's called a training stance.

Agreed.

The way I look at the stance, as well as the heel-drag when I'm walking in a side-horse or back-horse, is that it is training my leg muscles to have explosive power. Because of the static stance or when I'm pushing into the ground, the leg muscles are getting one heck of a workout.

Because Wing Chun is not a static martial art and requires one to move quite quickly at times, this spring-loaded nature of the legs allows one to either fire down the centre or side step (and then come back to centre) with speed and power.

So, in closing, I think that the stance has a great potential to making a person a faster and better fighter.

In the interview with Roy Jones Jr., he was caught doing a lot of exercise-bike work (before he fought Trinidad), and he said that the legs make the fight. I agree.

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

[T.D.O]

Its really about what your goal and what the situation is.

unless you hop you can't move with your legs equal, everyone must put one foot in front of the other. If you choose to just turn your horse, then a equal stance will work fine. I can see situations were turning the horse would be the only option.

i use my legs equal, but feet forward (maybe slightly inward)

the problems i have with the training stance are moving forward and getting "torque power" when my foot is allready turned....

but keep in mind that i'm only on SLT btw.... LOL

[k gledhill]

You need the fighting 'bubble' so to speak...chum kil & SLT