new to the board

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's about what I believe. That and placebo effecs.

But the thread at BS is interesting.

There is Jow and then there is Jow.
Sad but true.
And the IP stuff is not typical Jow.
Then there is different types of IP jow depending on what stage you are at.

[1bad65]

The jow being discussed on BS is Dale Dugas' stuff.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

There is a good thread at Bullshido about 'jow' and a guy testing it (not a true scientific test IMO) to see if it indeed toughens his hands.

Reply]
U got a link?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The jow being discussed on BS is Dale Dugas' stuff.

Which one?
I use his IP stuff and it is Top Notch.
Have used it for 2 years now.

[1bad65]

Here is the BS thread on the test:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64970

[sanjuro_ronin]

There are a couple on truthmartialarts.org too, one of them mine.

Not sure what your point is.

[SifuAbel]

You are right. I reread his post. I see your point.

Hey Rudy, please read my above message. I'm sure you're ****ed, but please try to man-up and be done with it. It no longer serves any purpose.

Peace.

"Their obsession with me is well beyond creepy and border lining on the psychotic."

Nuff said.

[Takuan]

HE STARTED IT, AGAIN

Alright, one of you, either one, needs to grow up. I used to frequent these boards, but the Rudy/Abel bull**** was so prevalent that EVERY discussion turned to a flame war between you two. Now I came back for two days, and it took 4 threads for it to come back. How long ago was your guys' squabble? Moving on...

But anyway, OP. In Iron training, from a scientific standpoint, you're basically hitting the muscle fibers/bone fibers and letting them recover from the bruises, right?

I thought I knew about how it worked until I started taking exercise science classes, and most impacts on muscle that end up hurting like iron training are bruises. Does the fiber just built up thicker epimysius? (not sure if that's the right term, but I mean the skin covering the muscle fiber bundles) And in the case of the bone, why does the bone recover and become thicker?

Bone tissue becomes stronger with weight training, and I assume that a stressure force (i.e. the stress on the metacarpals when punching a block, or the stress on the forearm bones when punching a block) would be the same principle as weight training stresses. But why would shearing forces across the bone have the same effect? (i.e. when you would do a five star forearm hit deally, technical term, I know)

Thanks for any upcoming info! :P

Edit: by "bruises" in the first paragraph, I mean small, minor bruises. Most injuries resulting from physical activity are strains, sprains, or bruises. (broken bones, dislocations, concussions, etc. are considered more serious, and I hope to god no one trains iron skills by dislocating limbs or getting concussions)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Alright, one of you, either one, needs to grow up. I used to frequent these boards, but the Rudy/Abel bull**** was so prevalent that EVERY discussion turned to a flame war between you two. Now I came back for two days, and it took 4 threads for it to come back. How long ago was your guys' squabble? Moving on...

But anyway, OP. In Iron training, from a scientific standpoint, you're basically hitting the muscle fibers/bone fibers and letting them recover from the bruises, right?

I thought I knew about how it worked until I started taking exercise science classes, and most impacts on muscle that end up hurting like iron training are bruises. Does the fiber just built up thicker epimysius? (not sure if that's the right term, but I mean the skin covering the muscle fiber bundles) And in the case of the bone, why does the bone recover and become thicker?

Bone tissue becomes stronger with weight training, and I assume that a stressure force (i.e. the stress on the metacarpals when punching a block, or the stress on the forearm bones when punching a block) would be the same principle as weight training stresses. But why would shearing forces across the bone have the same effect? (i.e. when you would do a five star forearm hit deally, technical term, I know)

Thanks for any upcoming info! :P

One of the best analogies was that of a bare foot distance runner VS one with running shoes.
The bones in the feet of the bare footed one would get denser quicker than those of the one with running shoes, perhaps even denser to a degree that the shoed runner will never get.

[SifuAbel]

Although the bones do get stronger as a result of IP. The biggest factor is the increase in the hand's muscle mass. IP training is about irritation. Trying to deliver more blood to the tissues of the hand. LOL@ the douches on BS trying to authoritatively do it "their way".

Irronically, this thread is following exactly on par with what this board is like. IP isn't really on topic to the thread. But because of its connection with the main poster you get the goobers to bring up the controversy.

My having a string of stalkers IS on topic for this thread. Welcome to the board.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

As the most Adaptable animal on the planet, we respond to stresses by becoming stronger than the stress (son long as it's not great enough to break us). If we stress the muscles, they get stronger, if the stress the bones, they get stronger.

Although bones do get stronger through weight lifting, they seem to respond better to impact training (Muay Thai shins or Chinese Iron Hand for example). The Jow just speeds the process, and allows the process to be taken to a greater extent than without, that is all. In part, it's just a steroid for bones, only without negative side effects.

It's so simple everyone is missing it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

As the most Adaptable animal on the planet, we respond to stresses by becoming stronger than the stress (son long as it's not great enough to break us). If we stress the muscles, they get stronger, if the stress the bones, they get stronger.

Although bones do get stronger through weight lifting, they seem to respond better to impact training (Muay Thai shins or Chinese Iron Hand for example). The Jow just speeds the process, and allows the process to be taken to a greater extent than without, that is all. In part, it's just a steroid for bones, only without negative side effects.

It's so simple everyone is missing it.

Dude, its TCMA, over complication is gung all its own !

[Takuan]

IP isn't really on topic to the thread.
My having a string of stalkers IS on topic for this thread. Welcome to the board.

my main feild of study is iron skills

lol wut?

I'm almost certain that the thread title was related to "Hi my name is ____, I do ____ and am proficient in knowledge of ______" not "Flame war of 2006-2008" :P

But I gotcha about the hand muscles, but my question was more related to the scientific aspect of the muscle fiber durability increase.

Just because your hand has more muscle mass doesn't mean that it's tougher.

My options I'm thinking about are:

1. Thicker fiber covers due to repeated bruising.
or
2. Nerve dulling.

or both.

[SifuAbel]

More like the resistance of larger muscle tissue to the surrounding myofacial sheathing.

Their shouldn't be any real prolonged bruising or hematoma. Thats what the jow, massage and boiling/heating/jacuzzi of the hand is trying to avoid.

And no, the thread topic is "I'm new to the board, what can I expect, what I hope find. "

[Takuan]

As the most Adaptable animal on the planet, we respond to stresses by becoming stronger than the stress (son long as it's not great enough to break us). If we stress the muscles, they get stronger, if the stress the bones, they get stronger.

Although bones do get stronger through weight lifting, they seem to respond better to impact training (Muay Thai shins or Chinese Iron Hand for example). The Jow just speeds the process, and allows the process to be taken to a greater extent than without, that is all. In part, it's just a steroid for bones, only without negative side effects.

It's so simple everyone is missing it.

My beef is with the term "gets stronger." I don't understand why it gets stronger. I know that after you enough blocks that your knuckles don't hurt as bad. My question is more on a physiological examination level.

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/ima...usclefiber.jpg

in that picture, you have the muscles covered by the fascia, epimysium, paramysium, fasciculus, and endomysium.

But saying "It's simple" isn't exactly right. That's like saying "lift weights. your muscles get bigger and stronger, it's simple!" :P