Question about Shi Deyangs school...?

[ngokfei]

that's some serious training schedule.

I'd probably have a heart attack trying to do all sessions in one day. Hell just doing the morining session would make me puke

Oh to be 18 again, what am I saying it hurt just as much then but my ability to recover was greater then.

I guess I'll have to pass, definetly need those western comforts

Trained for a 3 months at Shi guo Lin's school back when I was 35 and out of shape. While I still could hold my own My conditioning was really pittiful. Remeber taking a short break to do some stretching from doing the Wubuquan and the junior monk there Shi Hengxin went ape **** on me. He didn't speak any english but through translation had me do the set 10 times no stop.

I did it but that set the tone between us. In 3 months my body did get back into some shape but all they did was push forms. I learned 5 sets in 3 months and not one application session - time to move on

Not to put down the school though, Shi Guo Lin knew some stuff and since we were the same age he took pity on me. Until he found out that I had previous training (thanks to a visiting teacher)

Sh Deyang's vcd series is the most comprehensive and i'd recommend it

[Siu Lum Fighter]

Ya, what's up with that? There was a whole thread on this, "Shaolin schools no teachie applications," I think it was. When I learned from my sifu he may not have shown me every application for every move, but he showed me quite a bit. Learning the applications sometimes drastically modifies the way I perform some moves.

[HtownShaolinBum]

.. even restaurants in northern china have a reputation for not being very cleanly.

Well, thats a good way to get the most effective conditioning of all:

IRON STOMACH TRAINING!

[LFJ]

iron stomach! tell me about it! i almost died last time i ate in a dengfeng restaurant. all dizzy and cold, yet sweating bullets at the same time. i prefer cooking for myself while in china.

[LFJ]

ngokfei and siu lum fighter-

this may not be obvious but shaolin is a buddhist monastery, not a secular martial arts school. to understand shaolin, you have to understand shaolin history, to understand this you have to understand buddhism.

in most shaolin schools, the fighting applications and theories are not taught. you learn the forms. then all that has to do with fighting comes through sanda. this is because the real tradition is protected by keeping it in the shaolin family, to ordained monks and their disciples.

when you go to a shaolin school that says they teach shaolin gongfu, you automatically think thats like any secular chinese martial arts school, where you should be taught to use those techniques in fighting. in shaolin, this is not so. although they do teach you shaolin gongfu. you expected too much from them. unless they say clearly they teach you to fight with gongfu applications. this comes from secular martial arts background and mindset. not understanding shaolin buddhist tradition.

you can go there and learn shaolin gongfu and then train sanda for fighting. if you want real shaolin applications for fighting, you'll have to become a disciple. but then, this is not so easy and one cant just become a disciple, especially not with the intention of learning to fight.

[Shaolin87]

Lol iron stomach. I remember getting a steak and eggs meal which made my stomach burn like crazy in Zhejiang a few years back, and about 3 mins after we finished the meal together I literally had to run as fast as I could back to the dorms at the training center. Lol It must've been funny to see a teenage laowai running frantically through the streets.

[LFJ]

even if you're not vegetarian at home, its a wise choice to abstain from meat in china! especially dont buy meat from those street-side chicken vendors who have the meat sitting out under the hot sun on the side of the street all day long.

[ngokfei]

LFJ

Shaolin a buddhist Monastery, No Your kidding

It might have been a central place for the study of buddhism in the past but its far removed from being one of them today.

If your right in that they do no teach skills to Non Buddhist Disciples, well why don't they just come out and say it. Oh yeah, I forgot its no longer a high quality monastery and just a business machine for China

and they call it a shaolin "School"? Perhaps your right, "Shaolin Dance and Gymnastic School"

I'd like to see the abbott practice this schedule, he'd sure lose his "prominent profile"

As for being a vegetarian, its a good thing but I wouldn't recommend eating anything Raw or unbottled, period - you'll pay for it for a long time during and afterwards (like finding worms in the toilet)

[richard sloan]

LFJ

Not sure if you still are veg, but try and get him to take you to his fav noodle shop, a muslim place with mutton soup, if you haven't gone already!

Ngokfei- I think you would agree that the way most people consider the "Temple" it is as a physical building- actually a compound of buildings? And people would then further go on to consider the monastery to be what we would perceive any kind of monastery to be. But this is not the full picture.

In some understandings this is where people would expect the 'buddhism' part to be, but in other senses the temple is actually a group or "family" of monks- sometimes multiple groups of monks and disciples with a lot of overlap- and this is where the actual transmission occurs, where the real buddhism is. The physical bricks of the compound are meaningless, who owns them and who politically is in control of them are also meaningless while the family style transmission is still intact, master to disciples. That is actually where the temple or the monastery is. While you can't deny the money machine aspect, it's not accurate to limit the term monastery per se to just that $$$ collecting apparatus while there are still active lines of transmission- like there always were, and probably always will be since the dharma is self evident.

[ngokfei]

lfj

eveyrthing you said about the transmission of the dharma is correct. Still Shaolin is not highly thought of as a Buddhist Monastery by the mainstream Buddhist Society even though trasmission is still taking place.

I see you didn't comment on why Martial Applications are not being taught along witht he Shaolin Forms.

Would compare this to being given a sutra and not assisted in its intereptations and meanings or how to incoporate the teachings into one's life.

[oasis]

Sh Deyang's vcd series is the most comprehensive and i'd recommend it

The dvds are even better because then you can use the subtitles

[ngokfei]

yes the DVD's are in english. But they do not translate everything being said though

[LFJ]

Shaolin is not highly thought of as a Buddhist Monastery by the mainstream Buddhist Society.

what in the world is that? and what does it have to do with shaolin actually being a buddhist monastery?

Would compare this to being given a sutra and not assisted in its intereptations and meanings or how to incoporate the teachings into one's life.

i wouldnt. as that is not the point. training is the practice which is the teaching itself. that is life.

[LFJ]

I see you didn't comment on why Martial Applications are not being taught along witht he Shaolin Forms.

are you serious?

it may be time to end our dialogue if you're not going to be reading my posts.

[ngokfei]

LFJ

and where did you answer the question about martial applications

"LFJ

Not sure if you still are veg, but try and get him to take you to his fav noodle shop, a muslim place with mutton soup, if you haven't gone already!

Ngokfei- I think you would agree that the way most people consider the "Temple" it is as a physical building- actually a compound of buildings? And people would then further go on to consider the monastery to be what we would perceive any kind of monastery to be. But this is not the full picture.

In some understandings this is where people would expect the 'buddhism' part to be, but in other senses the temple is actually a group or "family" of monks- sometimes multiple groups of monks and disciples with a lot of overlap- and this is where the actual transmission occurs, where the real buddhism is. The physical bricks of the compound are meaningless, who owns them and who politically is in control of them are also meaningless while the family style transmission is still intact, master to disciples. That is actually where the temple or the monastery is. While you can't deny the money machine aspect, it's not accurate to limit the term monastery per se to just that $$$ collecting apparatus while there are still active lines of transmission- like there always were, and probably always will be since the dharma is self evident."

A Buddhist Monastery like any other fixed organization is only functional if recognized by the Mainstream Group. Like a Cathoic Church has to recieve recognition. If its just a building not following the guiding rules and regualtions than it is not recognized by the Main Organization.

This is probably why the Shaolin Temple was without an "Official" abbott for so many years, even before the communist showed up.

om