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Thread: Hung Gar

  1. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by HungKuenH View Post
    Thanks HungKuenH

    That one is very interesting!! .....

    See, I find alot of similarity (and differences!) between Hung Gar/Kuen and Lam Tong Long Kuen (SPM) ....

    From the little I know old/older Hung Gar was alot more/majority close range short arm system.

    That too is interesting to me

    Thanks all
    Supporter: The Australasian Martial Arts & Self Defence Forums - http://www.OzMAForums.com

  2. #407
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    What Kind of Hung Gar is Sifu Wong Kiew Kitts is it a version of Village Hung Gar ? Some of his stances are low to the ground i thought village Hung gar was with higher stances .

  3. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    Yes and no
    The actual credit for re-organizing and developing the Pillar Sets should go to Wong Fei-Hung.. Yes, LSW re-organized and added his own refinements, hence it would be called, "development."
    No, as the Pillar sets existed before LSW, and there are other people who trained under Wong Fei-Hung, such as Tang Fong, who practice the pillar sets as well, albeit differently than the LSW versions.
    One of my teachers, studied a non-LSW lineage, and they do the pillar sets.
    Deng family also does the pillar sets-also non LSW.

    Please be more careful when making blanket statements.
    Tang Fong studied with LSW and others not purely WHF only. Deng family did not do pillar sets originally. Do not know of your teacher would be interesting to see the line, if you do not mind?
    Actually the earlier and latter sessions of hung kuen even from LSW have differences.....

  4. #409
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    Some words from Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit:

    "But there were some aspects of Southern Shaolin Kungfu whcih Hoong Hei Khoon might not have learnt from his teacher, the Venerable Chee Seen. This did not make Hoong Hei Khoon a lesser master because there were so many things in Shaolin Kungfu, and it was not necessary to learn everything. For example, it was unlikely that Hoong Hei Khoon learned the Shaolin Flower Set from Chee Seen, who taught this set to Foong Sai Yoke and Wu Wei Thein. But Hoong Hei Khoon was a better fighter than his two junior classmates.

    Moreover, there were also other Southern Shaolin masters besides Chee Seen. One such master was the Venerable Jiang Nan who passed down, among many other things, the Shaolin Pakua Set. In the Southern Shaolin Kungfu that I teach, we have the Shaolin Flower Set as well as the Shaoln Pakua Set, but these two kungfu sets are not normally found in Hoong Ka Kungfu, where the normal sets taught are Tiger-Crane, Taming Tiger, Iron Wire, and Five-Animal Set"



    Some Sets that GM Wong Kiew Kit claims to have learned(I do not know if these would be considered "Old Hung" or "Pre-WFH sets", but it is certainly possible.

    "The kungfu sets I learned from Uncle Righteousness were as follows.

    1.Tiger-Crane Double Form Set(Fu Hok Seong Ying Khuen - Cantonese pronunciation)
    2.Dragon Strength Chi Circulation Set (Loong Lek Wan Hei Khuen)
    3.Fifth-Brother Flag-Waving Long Staff (No Long Yew Kei Khuan)
    4.Continuous Double Daggers (Lin Wan Seong Pei Sau)
    5.Crossroad Southern Knives (Sap Tzi Seong Nam Tou)
    6.108-Pattern Staff (Yiat Pak Ling Pat Tim Khuan)
    7.Essence of Shaolin (Siu Lam Khuen Shuit Jing Wah)
    I was extremely lucky. All the three unarmed sets, “Tiger-Crane”, “Dragon Strength” and “Essence of Shaolin” were Uncle Righteousness' treasures. “Essence of Shaolin”, a fantastic set but not well known because it was kept a secret, was Uncle Righteousness' best, one which a master normally transited to his successor. To quote my sijie, who is Uncle Righteousness' eldest daughter, which I still remember to this day, “Uncle Righteousness treats you (i.e. me) better than he treats his own sons”, for which I am forever grateful.


    The legendary Shaolin Flower Set

    From my kungfu brothers and sihooks in Uncle Righteousness lineage, I learned the following.

    1.Great Majestic Set (Tai Hoong Khuen) But later I use its other name “Triple Stretch” (Sam Chin Khuen) because I also learn another version of Great Majestic Set from Sifu Ho Fatt Nam.
    2.Shaolin Flower Set (Siu Lam Fa Khuen)
    3.Cross-Road Throat-Locking Spear (Sap Tzi Sor Hou Cheong)
    4.Green Dragon Crescent Moon Knife (Cheng Loong Yim Yuit Tou)
    5.Three-Section Whip (Sam Chit Pin)
    6.Golden Legume Copper Round Hammer (Kam Kwa Thoong Choui)
    7.Kungfu Bench (Wang Tau Thang)
    8.Travelling Dragon Spear (Yau Loong Cheong)
    My second sifu was Sifu Chee Kim Thong, the patriarch of Wuzu Kungfu, who was considered a national treasure of China. However, I only learned for about two years in his school.

    My third sifu was Sifu Ho Fatt Nam, the thrid generation successor from the Shaolin Temple at Quanzhow in South China. Sifu Ho Fatt Nam was the one who “enlightened” me in kungfu.

    From Sifu Ho Fatt Nam I learned the following.

    1.Shaolin Cross-Roads at Four Gates (Siu Lam Sap Tzi Seai Moon Khuen)
    2.Shaolin Pakua Set (Siu Lam Pat Kwa Khuen)
    3.Seven Stars (Chet Sing Khuen)
    4.Ho Family Flowing Water Staff (Ho Ka Lau Sheui Khuan)
    5.Great Majestic Set (Tai Hoong Khuen)
    “Four Gates” was the treasure in Sifu Ho Fatt Nam lineage. Interestingly, like “Tiger-Crane” in Uncle Righteousness lineage, “Four Gates” was the first set taught to beginners, just as it was the first set taught to kungfu monks at the southern Shaolin Temple at Quanzhou in Fujian, as my sifu told me. As the practitioner progressed, his insight and application of “Four Gates” deepened. This made it such a fantastic set. It is simple in appearance but profound in philosophy and application.

    From my kungfu brothers in Sifu Ho Fatt Nam lineage, I learned the following.

    1.Shaolin Dragon Form Set (Siu Lam Loong Ying Khuen)
    2.Great Bell Lohan Set (Tai Choong Lor Hon Khuen)


    Profundity in Stark Simplicity in San Zhan of Wuzuquan

    My fourth sifu was Sifu Choe Hoong Choy, the patriarch of Choe Family Wing Choon, from whom I learned the following sets.

    1.Small Beginning (Siu Lin Tau), which also includes Searching for Bridges (Cham Kiew) and Thrusting Fingers (Phew Chew).
    2.Flower Set (Fa Khuen)
    3.Six-and-Half-Point Staff (Luk Tim Phoon Khuan)
    4.Human-Character Knives (Yein Tzi Tou)
    5.Tiger-Crane Double Form Srt (Fu Hok Seong Ying Khuen)
    6.Essence of Fighting (Shui Ta)
    7.Drunken Eight Immortals (Chui Pat Seen)
    8.Choy-Li-Fatt (Choy-Li-Fatt)
    9.Thirteen-Technique Spear (Sap Sam Cheong)
    I had special privileges when I learned from Sifu Choe Hoong Choy. Because he treated me as an equal rather than as a disciple, he allowed me to choose whatever I liked to learn from him. Of course I chose to learn the best first. The best in Choe Family Wing Choon are Siu Lin Tau (which means “Little Beginning in Training”), Flower Set and Six-and-Half-Point Staff."




    This is from a Q and A w/ Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit




    "Now, we come to your questions proper. There was no contradiction why Chee Seen taught Luk Ah Choy at the Hoitung Monastery and not at the southern Shaolin Monastery. He might, or might not, have taught Luk Ah Choy this set at the Shaolin Monastery, but after the monastery was burnt and Chee Seen escaped to Guangdong, Lok Ah Choy often met up with his master.

    Although Hoong Ka Kungfu is named in honour of Hoong Hei Khoon, most of Hoong Ka exponents today are descended from the lineage of Luk Ah Choy. Please note that Hoong Hei Khoon and Luk Ah Choy did not call their kungfu Hoong Ka, they called it Shaolin. "Hoong Ka" is a modern term; even as recent as Lam Sai Weng's time, which was about 50 years ago, what is now called Hoong Ka by many people was then called Shaolin."

  5. #410
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    Good point. Most people called it Siu Lum, or Fut Ga Lo Han Kuen. Or Siu Lum Hung Kuen. Hung-Ga is a more modern term. We like to refer to it as Siu Lum Hung Kuen.
    One of my Sifus studied Deng family, and he also studied under Lei Yeu-San, who's lineage came from Luk Ah-Choy-as far as I remember.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  6. #411
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    Deng=Tang?

    As in..Deng Fang=Tang Fung?

    Is the connection to Lu ak Choy one of the reasons why the TF lineage does not have the Sup Ying Kuen..but instead uses the Ng Ying Kuen?

  7. #412
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    Tentigers

    Are you saying that what we know as Old Village Hung Ga Wong Fei Hung Hung Ga and all the Hung Ga s are some kind of Shaolin Lohan Kung Fu originally ?

  8. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Firehawk4 View Post
    Are you saying that what we know as Old Village Hung Ga Wong Fei Hung Hung Ga and all the Hung Ga s are some kind of Shaolin Lohan Kung Fu originally ?
    I dont understand it nessecarly like that. In the first place Lohan is a Term. Maybe the called it like this in reference to the temple or the monks there. Monks try to acchive enlightment, to become a Lohan or Arhat, like it said in Sanskrit.But I am just guessing and also very interested to read more.

    PS: @Flower Fist

    Is this set anywhere on the Net ? I ask because we have in Weng Chun also a Fa Kuen set and I am interested to find out if there are any similarities in it. As we trace back our Weng Chun also to Chi Sim.


    Kind regards,
    Xian

  9. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaterthanNever View Post
    Deng=Tang?

    As in..Deng Fang=Tang Fung?

    Is the connection to Lu ak Choy one of the reasons why the TF lineage does not have the Sup Ying Kuen..but instead uses the Ng Ying Kuen?
    No, Lam Sai-Wing developed the sup ying kuen, putting more of his tiet sien kuen in the Dragon section, and more element punches. The snake and leopard sections are similar, but slightly different and the rest is almost identical.
    Tang Fong line recognizes Hung Hei-Guen and then Luk Ah-Choy, Wong Kei-Ying, etc.
    I had actually seen the omission of Hung Hei-Guen on a LSW site. Not sure which.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  10. #415
    Chee Sim is a fairy tale...

    Wong kiew kit using Fong Sai Yuk .... Unfortunately even more fairy tales...,

    Shaolin as origin of hung kuen ..... a lot of nice shaw bros films.... But most likely a fairy tale

    Sad

  11. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard View Post
    Chee Sim is a fairy tale...

    Wong kiew kit using Fong Sai Yuk .... Unfortunately even more fairy tales...,

    Shaolin as origin of hung kuen ..... a lot of nice shaw bros films.... But most likely a fairy tale

    Sad
    Ive learned that every Fairy Tale has some truth.


    Kind regards,
    Xian

  12. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehawk4 View Post
    Are you saying that what we know as Old Village Hung Ga Wong Fei Hung Hung Ga and all the Hung Ga s are some kind of Shaolin Lohan Kung Fu originally ?
    I don't know if they actually are, that's just what they were actually called.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  13. #418
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    "Is this set anywhere on the Net ? I ask because we have in Weng Chun also a Fa Kuen set and I am interested to find out if there are any similarities in it. As we trace back our Weng Chun also to Chi Sim."

    Xian,

    Not sure really. I'd say just go to youtube and see what comes up. Actually, Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit claims that Fa Kuen was the predecessor of Wing Chun. Which is interesting to see how there may be some overlap between Hung and WC.

    TT,

    "No, Lam Sai-Wing developed the sup ying kuen, putting more of his tiet sien kuen in the Dragon section, and more element punches."

    Interesting. So Iron wire came before Sup Ying insofar as when it was invented?


    "The snake and leopard sections are similar, but slightly different and the rest is almost identical."

    One reason I was told that Tang Fung HG is different is something to the effect of..Tang Fung himself either said something like elements cannot be personified..

    Or..

    It was something like he(Tang Fung) had some difficulties in translating the idea of making elements into a cogent translation of how a person would lets say..manifest fire, or wood.

    And I say that with no intent of wanting to be perceived as a troll. Honest.


    "Tang Fong line recognizes Hung Hei-Guen and then Luk Ah-Choy, Wong Kei-Ying,"

    Interesting indeed. Would this mean that TF Hung would have greater weight to the label of "pre-WFH" or I've heard it as "non WFH" lineage?(since it goes from HHG to LAC to WKY?


    "I had actually seen the omission of Hung Hei-Guen on a LSW site. "

    Wow..this seems almost the mirror image of what I asked above w/ the TF line!(as far as now the LSW folks don't mention HHG). Could LSW Hung them be called "pre-HHG Hung Ga"?

    Hmmm..

  14. #419
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    well.....some TF schools like to refer to their HG as "orthodox," and LSW as "Modified."
    Similar to how some WC schools like to refer to themselves as "traditional," and others as..um, not.

    when it comes down to it, it's just marketing, and personal pride.
    Not important in the grand scheme of things, just important enough to create bickering.

    The best thing is to realize that all Hung-Ga is one family. Enjoy the differences, keep an open mind.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  15. #420
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    What about Tit Kiu Sams Hung Ga does he have any students left that teaches his Hung Ga ? What other forms did Tit Kiu Sam teach ? Who where his teachers ?

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