Hung Gar

[ursa major]

I am trying to understand the line between Li Sai Wing and Chong Oi Mun, then from there into the Canadian Karate Kung Fu Association.

The lineage as shown on the web page is clearly trying to depict Hung Gar origins which to me indicates an attempt to draw credibility to the same association based upon those Hung Gar origins.

The generation under Chong Oi Mun is clearly oriented towards Karate (this is stated on the same web site). My difficulty is in understanding how the Hung Gar line fits into this picture? It does not make sense.


Best regards.

[David Jamieson]

*edit 2* it would appear these are karate guys attempting to capitalize on the "kungfu market".
Yeesh. And there are a whole bunch of em around toronto.

not into feuding, but it's totally suspect. My personal opinion is that there simply is no connection to actual hung gar/ hung kuen lineages here.

ng ying kuen is a set from within the hung gar system, it isn't a style on it's own and to call the major pillars of hung kuen superfluous as has been found in some of thiose sites that link off there is basically admission of not having true connection.

karate. plain and simple. no hung kuen there.

[ursa major]

...not into feuding, but it's totally suspect. My personal opinion is that there simply is no connection to actual hung gar/ hung kuen lineages here.

karate. plain and simple. no hung kuen there...

Nor should you consider yourself to be feuding. I suspected the authenticity as well -- which is why I brought it to this forum for other considered opinions.

Five Animal form is just one spoke in the Hung Gar wheel. What eludes me is the Karate connection. I sense that this Association is something to steer clear of.

Best regards,
UM

[hasayfu]

Can’t really say much about this but there are a few red flags.

1) It appears that the YC Wong and Buck Sam Kong references are just to show “other” Famous Hung Gar instructors. Not sure where they got the data but my guess is that they confused a note from one of the Lam Chun Fai seminar promoters since many of them are BSK students. The way the lineage is displayed, it puts them on the same level. There is no direct ties to them.

2) AFAIK, Ng Ying is not a Lam Sai Wing set. True, most modern lineages from LSW has Ng Ying but it is just Sup Ying cut off after the 5th animal and done to make teaching easier. Tang Fung lineages have an Ng Ying set and no Sup Ying.

3) They talk about Hung Gar lineage but treat it as a single form.

Looking to this for accuracy is like asking a child about politics. He'll have a myopic view and mainly repeat what he hears from the adults around him.

[ymotion]

I agree with Haysafu.

The lineage chart suspect. My Sifu (Yc Wong) was an apprentice of Sigung Lam Jo. He did not learn from Lam chung sing. They are classmates. As to Si-suk Buck Sam Kong, he did learn from Sigung, but as in most studios the sihings do a lot of teaching. So, to my knowledge Si-bak Lam Chan fai did teach si-suk Kong some(not si-suk chung sing), but he still is under Sigung Lam Jo.

Also the Lam lineage does definately not have the Ng Ying. Lam jo also is not a student of Wong fei Hung, but Lam sai wing.

I also have never heard of li sai wing. If this lineage chart were accurate that would place Chong oi Mun at the same age as Si-gung, Lam jo. Making him a classmate, possible but the time table seems off.

One last point. The old timers were VERY strict about mixing styles. Even my Si-gung. It is very unlikely, that someone from the Lam lineage to add Karate. Possible, but not likely.

[ammocase]

Its crazy. I was mainly a karate guy, i trained in shotokan karate an kickboxing.It did not prepare me for this particular sifus style of Kung Fu. I will also state that i was never a fan of kung fu, but lately i've been watching a lot of kung fu movies an it paved the way for me to try out some kung fu.

I am currently recovering from a sprained ankle, so i have a lot of limitations in my training within the kwoon. First Hung gar school i went to try out wasnt so tough. But the one im in NOW 9 an the one i joined ) has us doing 3 sets of 50 push ups two times on piles of bricks, all together it would be 300 push ups on bricks... then we would pile bricks on our legs an hold it there while our sifu stands on us for what seemed like hours. Then we finished off with a horse stance for 30 minutes.... with of course.. BRICKS on our thighs adding weight. Very hardcore.. as i type this my fists are blood red an my body is sore all over.

Most of the routines is odd to me, with all the odd wide attacks of kung fu. The weapons an forms are beautiful. I just hope my body gets used to the push ups... thats the only tough part to me... an the horse stance training.

[TenTigers]

wide attacks? explain.

[ammocase]

More like indirect attacks. In karate it was straight direct point a to point b strikes. Only attack we did that wasnt "straight" was the hook punch, some side back fist strikes, but they were never wide like in kung fu, yesterday we were doing these wide swinging strikes while torquing around our hips.

[gwa sow]

i study choy lay fut but it has a some of the same kind of strikes. a lot of people have trouble when they start with those wide swinging strikes. they feel real weird at first. keep practicing and you'll get it.

[TenTigers]

it's all in how you apply it. Knowing the strikes and knowing when, why, and how to use them is what will make them effective. Just as in all MA, skills mean nothing until you understand how to use them, and make them fit, make them real.
The worst thing in the world is watching someone try to land these by using them incorectly. I've seen WC guys try to close using chain punches and get nailed before they are within striking range. I've seen HG guys try to land element punches and get hit before they get the strike out. I've seen TKD guys get nailed trying to throw roundhouse kicks, or get jammed. Learn to recognize the difference.
If you are at a school that teaches all these technniques, but when they fight are doing something else entirely, it is a sure sign that the teacher does not honestly understand his art.

[thewutangmonk]

Hi!

Anyone been to the Lau Family Hung Gar school in HK ?

Or anyone been to Fo Shan to train Hung Gar?

Cheers

[Hung gar]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmDGGfYsMw8

[Golden Arms]

Looked really good

[mok]

Yup - this is some of the best stuff out there.

thx for putting this up.

[David Jamieson]

"O" is looking the solid.

thanks for sharing.