Hung Gar

[yeshe]

Looking at the four pillar forms. I have been told the GJFF is the oldest.
the iron wire was added later and WFH composed the tiger crane.

I have read somewhere (maybe on this forum) that the older hung sets could be practiced on the space of four tiles,(from what I guess a stone floor tile would be about 2 1/2 to 3 ft square give or take)

also long arm was added during WFH's time,

So if we took GJFF and 5 animal, removed the long arm techniques and narrowed and raised the stances maybe that may look like the the "oldest" hung

maybe , maybe not

[TenTigers]

If you look at the opening sections in the pillar forms-the parts done in the higher, and narrower stances, short bridges, etc you might be able to see the older Hung Kuen style.

[LaterthanNever]

As for Wong Fei Hung:

"The form - as known in Hung Kuen - Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was developed by Lam Sai Wing, the man that made Tiger Crane Boxing popular. Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was choreographed around the beginning of the Qing dynasty (1912) and was developped upon the many techniques and forms he (Lam Sai Wing) learned from his master Wong Fei Hung. Wong Fei Hung lead a very colorful life and became a legend. In his youth Wong Fei Hung learned the following forms:
1) Sei Ping Lok Chan Kuen = Four Levels Six Controlling Fist
2) Saam Tzien Kuen = Three Arrow Fist
3) Ye Fu Chat Lam = Night Tiger Comes Out of the Forrest
4) Seung Lung Kuen = Double Dragon Fist
5) Daan Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Single Taming Tiger Fist
6) Siu Hung Kuen = Little Hung Kuen
7) Lo Han Paau Mo Ying Guek = Lohan Rope and No Shadow Kick
8) Lo Han Gam Tsien Biu = Lohan Golden Coin and Dart Throwing Art
9) Sei Tzeung Biu Lung Kwan = Four Hexagram Dragon Stick

Later in his life his curriculum was:
1) Daan Gung Kuen = Single Gung Character Fist
2) Seung Gung Kuen = Double Gung Character Fist
3) Daan Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Single Bow Taming Tiger Fist
4) Seung Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Double Bow Taming Tiger Fist
5) Mang Fu Kuen = Fierce Tiger Fist
6) Sei Tzeung Biu Lung Kwan = Four Hexagram Dragon Stick
7) Ji Mo Do = Buterfly Knives/Mother Son Swords
8) Mo Ying Guek = Shadowless Kick
9) Haak Fu Jau = Black Tiger Claw"

You've also got the forms that Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit claims have been part of the development of Hung, yet for one reason or another are rather esoteric or little is known about who founded them.

[5thBrother]

Thanks TenTigers,

Thanks for the replies everyone.

[TenTigers]

As for Wong Fei Hung:

"The form - as known in Hung Kuen - Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was developed by Lam Sai Wing, the man that made Tiger Crane Boxing popular. Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was choreographed around the beginning of the Qing dynasty (1912) and was developped upon the many techniques and forms he (Lam Sai Wing) learned from his master Wong Fei Hung. Wong Fei Hung lead a very colorful life and became a legend. In his youth Wong Fei Hung learned the following forms:
1) Sei Ping Lok Chan Kuen = Four Levels Six Controlling Fist
2) Saam Tzien Kuen = Three Arrow Fist
3) Ye Fu Chat Lam = Night Tiger Comes Out of the Forrest
4) Seung Lung Kuen = Double Dragon Fist
5) Daan Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Single Taming Tiger Fist
6) Siu Hung Kuen = Little Hung Kuen
7) Lo Han Paau Mo Ying Guek = Lohan Rope and No Shadow Kick
8) Lo Han Gam Tsien Biu = Lohan Golden Coin and Dart Throwing Art
9) Sei Tzeung Biu Lung Kwan = Four Hexagram Dragon Stick

Later in his life his curriculum was:
1) Daan Gung Kuen = Single Gung Character Fist
2) Seung Gung Kuen = Double Gung Character Fist
3) Daan Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Single Bow Taming Tiger Fist
4) Seung Gung Fuk Fu Kuen = Double Bow Taming Tiger Fist
5) Mang Fu Kuen = Fierce Tiger Fist
6) Sei Tzeung Biu Lung Kwan = Four Hexagram Dragon Stick
7) Ji Mo Do = Buterfly Knives/Mother Son Swords
8) Mo Ying Guek = Shadowless Kick
9) Haak Fu Jau = Black Tiger Claw"

You've also got the forms that Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit claims have been part of the development of Hung, yet for one reason or another are rather esoteric or little is known about who founded them.

There are lineages outside of LSW that practice Gung Ji, Fook Fu as separate forms. LSW did not invent that set, he reorganized it, combined the two as one, and added his own personal refinements.

[David Jamieson]

As for Wong Fei Hung:

"The form - as known in Hung Kuen - Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was developed by Lam Sai Wing, the man that made Tiger Crane Boxing popular. Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen was choreographed around the beginning of the Qing dynasty (1912) ....

The Qing Dynasty began in 1644 and ended in 1911.

In the time of Lam Sai Wing, the rebellion was over. The LSW Hung Gar is the most widely recognized version as it was delineated through the biggest names in the early to mid 1900's.

Most of the WFH stuff is legend and it has been overshadowed by hundreds of books, comics, tv shows etc etc. WFH is practically a Batman unto himself and was more than likely a whole lot more modest than what he is portrayed as.

Even LSW had some pretty tall tales told about him. Such is the lot of a kung fu master when he dies.

[TenTigers]

Even LSW had some pretty tall tales told about him. Such is the lot of a kung fu master when he dies.

yup. I can only imagine the stories they will tell about me when I'm gone.
Heck, the stories they say now are embarrassing enough.

"The famous fight with the lesbians at Escapes Night Club," will go down in history, right along side "The fight at the Luk Sin Theatre."

[LaterthanNever]

I copied and pasted..guilty as charged..

I guess if you wanted to get really technical..you'd have to go back to "what are the forms that Hung Hei Gung learned?"

He is after all..the deepest root of Hung Ga..besides Gee Sin..

[TenTigers]

I copied and pasted..guilty as charged..

I guess if you wanted to get really technical..you'd have to go back to "what are the forms that Hung Hei Gung learned?"

He is after all..the deepest root of Hung Ga..besides Gee Sin..

Some schools do not list Hung Hei Guen in their lineage. I suppose it is because he might be too based on legend, and no actual proof that he existed, or maybe because he is tied to the triads? Perhaps he is often confused with Hong XiuQuan, a famous rebel and religious zealot. Not sure. They start with Gee Sien, and go right to Luk Ah-Choy.

[LaterthanNever]

TT,

Interesting. Did Lu Ak Choi have a different syllabus of sets then?

[TenTigers]

TT,

Interesting. Did Lu Ak Choi have a different syllabus of sets then?

Not sure. My Sifu said his line comes from Luk Ah-Choy. He does Dan Gung Fook Fu, Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen, Tiet Sien Kuen. I will ask him the next time I see him....but, I know it will be a long conversation. (sigh) You ask him a simple question about a punch and he starts with the history of Gung-Fu.....

[Howard]

Actually it is accepted that Hong Xiguan existed - more than there is in the Chi Sim and shaolin story, which are only legends to blur Hong bang activities....

Lu ah cai is associated with Wong Feihung lineages....but no record in general,....thought to be a member of hong bang if existed but likely with alternate name.

It is also likely to be no forms or very minimal during Hong Xiguan period thus many different varieties....hearsay implies samjan and Fookfu as the foundation if there was any set....

All modern hung gar pillar sets were re-organized and developed by Lam Saiwing.

[LaterthanNever]

"Lu ah cai is associated with Wong Feihung lineages"

I guess perhaps what the original query of the poster is/was:

The term "Old style Hung" or "Village style Hung" is often spoken of in the context of "prior to WFH" or "non WFH" lineage.

This would imply that there are sets that are unique to this Old style Hung which one would not see in the WFH lineage..

[TenTigers]

All modern hung gar pillar sets were re-organized and developed by Lam Saiwing.

Yes and no
The actual credit for re-organizing and developing the Pillar Sets should go to Wong Fei-Hung.. Yes, LSW re-organized and added his own refinements, hence it would be called, "development."
No, as the Pillar sets existed before LSW, and there are other people who trained under Wong Fei-Hung, such as Tang Fong, who practice the pillar sets as well, albeit differently than the LSW versions.
One of my teachers, studied a non-LSW lineage, and they do the pillar sets.
Deng family also does the pillar sets-also non LSW.

Please be more careful when making blanket statements.

[HungKuenH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2WVX2_Zn4