Nandu, ie- the concept of difficulty...

[MightyB]

Nandu is a controversial issue in the Wushu community- I'm not going to go into too many details (most of it regards the need of very expensive special flooring and an unfair advantage given to the Chinese), but, in it's simplest terms, it's adding points for degrees of difficulty when scoring forms.

As a concept- I think this is good. As a matter of fact- I think it's something that the TCMA community should adopt. You know- go big or go home.

Now if we started changing traditional forms to make them more difficult- we'd get wushu- so we can't do that, but we can look to find the most difficult and eye appealing traditional forms from our various styles. We could assign difficulty levels to those forms- and standardize them- so... what could those forms be? For example, I know that Wah Lum, Shaolin, Jow Ga, and Eagle Claw all have cool, expressive, and explosive forms... what could be a set of "standardized" traditional forms that we could use with this concept?

[MasterKiller]

This thread fails.

Why should I go learn a new form outside my system just because some judge doesn't think it's flashy enough?

Traditional judges should judge on traditional criteria. Period.

[Mook Jong]

Isn't the root of TCMA people modifying forms and styles to suit their own needs, not simply conforming to what they'v been showed?

[MightyB]

Isn't the root of TCMA people modifying forms and styles to suit their own needs, not simply conforming to what they'v been showed?

What forum are you reading?

[MightyB]

This thread fails.

Why should I go learn a new form outside my system just because some judge doesn't think it's flashy enough?

Traditional judges should judge on traditional criteria. Period.

To grow...

[MasterKiller]

To grow...

Growing sideways isn't the same as growing tall. What you propose is just more bloat and dilution of traditional systems.

[mantis108]

To grow...

How So?

Mantis108

[MightyB]

How So?

Mantis108

One of the greatest martial artists I'll ever have the pleasure to know, Chung Ho Yin, was able to be humble enough to learn Eagle Claw after he was already a renowned Sifu of 7* Praying Mantis Kung Fu. The essence of life, of growth, is to always be a student.

You can't think you know everything- it's self limiting. Always seek out those with skill so that you can continue to learn. This is the essence of growth- of being a martial artist.

---

Or you can stay in your own little box in your own little world...

[MightyB]

Growing sideways isn't the same as growing tall. What you propose is just more bloat and dilution of traditional systems.

Didn't you seek out Coach Ross to grow in your application of San Shou?

[WinterPalm]

Growth is good. I've often told people that once you are good at one style, say black belt or a good 5 years in. Go get a white belt and start something new. It will humble you and that is what I did with Judo and later on in life hopefully I will don another white belt and get my azz handed to me and learn something.

But to change a form so that it is better for judging criteria, solely on aesthetics, is not growth in my opinion.
Doing a solid kung fu form properly with all the mechanics and alignment, power generation, etc, is as difficult if not more so than doing flashy spinning cartwheels and handstands.

Do we grow to impress judges? Or grow to further our combative skills?

That is one reason I've never, and probably never will be interested in forms competition...if you've done the form and learned the lessons it has to teach you, the proof is in the pudding...and that is in the ring.

[MasterKiller]

One of the greatest martial artists I'll ever have the pleasure to know, Chung Ho Yin, was able to be humble enough to learn Eagle Claw after he was already a renowned Sifu of 7* Praying Mantis Kung Fu. The essence of life, of growth, is to always be a student.

You can't think you know everything- it's self limiting. Always seek out those with skill so that you can continue to learn. This is the essence of growth- of being a martial artist.

---

Or you can stay in your own little box in your own little world...

What does that have to do with making everyone conform to a competition standard for the sake of competition?

[MightyB]

[QUOTE=WinterPalm;843941]
But to change a form so that it is better for judging criteria, solely on aesthetics, is not growth in my opinion.
Doing a solid kung fu form properly with all the mechanics and alignment, power generation, etc, is as difficult if not more so than doing flashy spinning cartwheels and handstands.
QUOTE]

See- I'm not talking about changing the forms- I'm saying that we find a couple of traditional forms that are extremely difficult to perform- that have pizzazz already built into them- and then use those in a special traditional forms division for forms competition. Everybody would know what they are, how difficult they are, and what they are supposed to look like.

You'd still have the regular traditional division.

[B-Rad]

What does standardizing and adding a scoring difficulty system for traditional competition add to your system? It makes judging easier, but should that be a goal of traditional wushu/kungfu? Is the appeasement of judges and improved "performance" standards worth that kind of change? I'm not necessarily against standardized training systems and judging common standards for forms competition, but would the results be worth the effort put into making such a thing to work. While it would get rid of a lot of the BS in forms competition, and take away some of the political baloney, do you think forms competitions important enough to traditional martial arts to need such an overhaul. Should forms competition results really matter to traditional Chinese martial arts?

[WinterPalm]

I see.

But still, there is really no pizazz in fighting.

Left hook, right straight, dump 'em on his head.

[B-Rad]

See- I'm not talking about changing the forms- I'm saying that we find a couple of traditional forms that are extremely difficult to perform- that have pizzazz already built into them- and then use those in a special traditional forms division for forms competition. Everybody would know what they are, how difficult they are, and what they are supposed to look like.

I think I mis-understood what you were saying the first time.

Something like this though would only work as a division for competition WITHIN a specific lineage or group. Wouldn't work for multiple styles without creating standardized forms that everyone would theoretically agree on (basically how modern wushu started out... of course it doesn't really work as there's too much individuality).