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Thread: Another Grandmaster of WCK

  1. #76
    Those weren't the characters or the term, but I'll track them down eventually.

    Typically, the inheritor of a system is the Jeung Mun Yan, or Gatekeeper while the founder of a system is the Jongsi (Founding Teacher).

    These are both horribly abused, as well of course, though sometimes in a comical way. I remember back in the day on rec.martial.arts a guy kept marketing himself as the super secret inheritor of some deadly other system, but called himself Jongsi [X], which actually meant he was the founder, or the person who made it up, which is what pretty much what we all assumed from the zaniness of his statements.

  2. #77
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    But in the general learning of any of the martial arts we have instructors.
    Actually, in Sydney, I have a Sifu for WC, but for BJJ I have a coach. The same will be true for the martial art of boxing.

    Your generalisation regarding Australia is too ... generalised.

    Personally, I think people should have instructors or coaches. Masters are for dogs, cats and submissives.

    And as for the guy who said he'd never met a Sifu who wanted to be called "master" ... man, you need to get out more, I've heard plenty.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post

    And as for the guy who said he'd never met a Sifu who wanted to be called "master" ... man, you need to get out more,
    .....Let me get this straight, you are saying that I really need to "get out more", but WHY? So that I can meet unqualified,mediocre and insecure "sifus" in need of a title?

    That is, of course most sifus you are likely to come around today. Or haven't you heard? Like "sifus" who need to pump iron to feel powerful; sifus who "improve" their art to feel in gaps in their knowledge;"sifus" who don't understand the relevance of qi gong training in Wing Chun or kung fu in general; "sifus", who teach sparring where their students hop around like boxers/kickboxers/TKD-ists, because they themselves don't understand the significance of kung fu stances in real combat and etc.,etc.

    NO, not thank you, I would suggest that maybe you are the one who needs "to get out more often"

    I am very choosy about who I call sifu, let alone master and the statement stands, I have not personally come across sifus nor masters (real ones in both cases) who insist on being addressed as "masters", and I am not just talking Wing Chun either.
    Last edited by HardWork8; 02-29-2008 at 05:02 AM. Reason: missed some points

  4. #79
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    Wow, raw nerve there ...
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

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  5. #80
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    A little side note.....

    Six months ago a man called Nie Yin Xue murdered his wife here in NZ and fled the country leaving his daughter in an Austalian airport on the way to the states.

    Our organisation reported at the time that he was a Kung Fu "expert" and in another follow up story that he was a "master" of Tai Chi.

    All this was based on the community believeing what he had told them and that he taught people kung Fu.

    I had a disagreement with our lead anchor (presenter) after seeing him in action in a short clip we got from another News channel, where i was saying we shouldnt call him a master nor an expert based on my opinion of what we saw...
    Our presenter disregarded my opinion (no problem at all IMO) and continued to use these titles in further follow up stories.

    A few nights ago the man was caught by some men who had seen him on Americas most wanted....the two guys used the old pulling the jacket over his head trick and hog tied him with his belt untill to 5.0 got there... LOL

    It sparked another discussion between myself and our presenter about how these terms are used so loosely in martial arts amoung other areas...

    I like the term coach.........but different strokes for different folks.

    Personally WWW i would have thought you were a little sheltered also after reading your post, only because my own experience has taught me loads of people out there love these self indulging titles, its seems more prevelent to me in Kung Fu than other arts but......

    DREW
    Last edited by Liddel; 02-29-2008 at 09:00 PM.
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  6. #81
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    That is, of course most sifus you are likely to come around today. Or haven't you heard? Like "sifus" who need to pump iron to feel powerful; sifus who "improve" their art to feel in gaps in their knowledge;"sifus" who don't understand the relevance of qi gong training in Wing Chun or kung fu in general; "sifus", who teach sparring where their students hop around like boxers/kickboxers/TKD-ists, because they themselves don't understand the significance of kung fu stances in real combat and etc.,etc.
    You seem to be making my point about "masters" for me. I withdraw the remark about getting out more, as you have obviously come across the people you earlier said you'd never come across. Apologies.

    That said, weight training is used by athletes in all sorts of disciplines and modern professional warriors, including a fair number of KF and WC expert practitioners. Not to feel powerful, but for maximum performance. It works in every other sport and athletic discipline and it will do the same in TCMA.

    Some people practice multiple arts because they can; some become very competent in several arts. There is room for both specialists and generalists ... and eclecticians, if that's a word. Wc itself is not a pure style, at least not since the pole was introduced. Most if not all of the big names in history improved the art; the others were transmitters - fine, you need both types of people. The history and philosophy of science, and just about every other rational discipline, has constant evolution and improvements via experimentation and innovation. Anything else is dogma, pseudoscience, or fundamentalism.

    My own instructor does some of this stuff ... I'm sure you weren't having a go at him just to try and get a rise out of me though. That would be immature.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

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  7. #82
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    I had a disagreement with our lead anchor (presenter) after seeing him in action in a short clip we got from another News channel, where i was saying we shouldnt call him a master nor an expert based on my opinion of what we saw...
    From what I saw he was a fat b@stard who wore a orange silk uniform and did pretty average taiji sword.

    I guess he was one of those self- if not media-, appointed "masters", huh? "Master" sells more tabloids.

    I'm glad they caught him - he killed his wife, and abandoned his 3-year old daughter at a railway station in Melbourne. That's one evil, cold hearted, SOB.

    Another vertical fist in the face of the notion that practicing TCMA necessarily makes you a better human being ...
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

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  8. #83

    Anerlich: Catch up in Sydney?

    Your generalisation regarding Australia is too ... generalised.


    Andrew, well spotted (note I did say one Australian point of view). More importantly do you train in Sydney Thursday nights. I will be up there with work on the 6th and 7th and I would like to catch up with Rick and yourself. Rick probably won't remember me but we trained together from the time that he was living upstairs in Fitzroy through until after he won his title in Kong Kong.

    Peter Lillywhite

  9. #84
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    Peter,

    Thursdays is a BJJ class at 5:30 pm and a Wing Chun class at 7 pm.

    I usually do the 5:30 class but not the 7 pm. Though I usually hang around to about 7 most of the time. Rick us usually there though I could not guarantee that that will be true this week - he has branch schools and other responsibilities as well.

    By all means drop in, say hi, and train.

    WHOA, Update:

    Thursday is a grading night, first or last Thursday every month. There will be no regular classes, and we will probably all finish up by 6:30 pm. You could still drop in, albeit no class, but Rick will definitely be there for the grading.
    Last edited by anerlich; 03-01-2008 at 06:59 PM.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
    Don't like my posts? Challenge me!

  10. #85
    I gotta go with Andrew on all of this. I think the words "Master" and "Grandmaster" are waaay overused and abused in CMA - including wing chun. There are plenty of people walking around with one of those words somehow attached to their name and resume who are bacially trying to kid themselves and others about who they really are and what they really can do with their fighting arts.

    Similar to 7th dan this or 8th dan that in karate, for example. The was a time when you could count on one hand the amount of 7th or 8th dan blackbelts there were in the entire world in any given karate style.

    After awhile, it becomes clear that THE GREAT MAJORITY of these titles are simply connected to inter-organizational politics and money-making schemes first and foremost; or worse yet, occasionally become a one-man show by someone who unilaterally proclaims himself some sort of Master or Grandmaster and starts his own organization.
    Last edited by Ultimatewingchun; 03-02-2008 at 11:35 AM.

  11. #86
    I went to the corner store the other day and there was a flyer up for (I kid you not) a 14th degree black belt!

    Any bets one when they hit 3 digits??

  12. #87

    Master?

    Lots of silly exaggerations in MA titles.
    Formal ranks dont mean much IMO in wc kf and there is no GM for all of wc
    BUT-
    there is a 'soft" usage of the term master as a master of a school (St xyz parish school)
    or a college (Balliol college)-more of a head teacher than an universal rank designation.

    To some a master may just mean teacher.

    joy chaudhuri

  13. #88
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    It's hard to go past Great Grandmaster Leung Ting, Master of Almightiness.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
    Don't like my posts? Challenge me!

  14. #89

    Andrew says:

    It's hard to go past Great Grandmaster Leung Ting, Master of Almightiness.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ((Does it have any meaning past his dues paying folks- I dont think so.
    Joy Chaudhuri))

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