Interesting view, disagree, but interesting nevertheless.Originally Posted by HardWork8
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Interesting view, disagree, but interesting nevertheless.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
(. Y .)
[QUOTE]
This is different from some Wing Chun guy cross training in Tae Kwon Do so that he can "improve" his kicks or a Praying Mantis practitioner adding boxing to his training to "improve" his striking. Cases such as the above demonstrate a practitioner's lack of understanding for the art that he practices.
QUOTE]
Oh save me ye gods of combat... please, I beg of your divine wisdom.
F---'n BS and you know it. As I said before- all a "combined" art can do is act like a general practitioner in the medical field. Good solid advice and can heal most aches and pains- but you wouldn't ask 'em to do heart surgery. Hence the formation of styles-- i.e. Mantis, WC, Hung Gar, etc. They were all answers to a question- otherwise you would only have CMA- nothing more. But that's not the case is it? WC tried to simplify the mess, Eagle Claw specializes in locking (yet crosstrained to ad kicks way back when), PM a striking-trapping-locking, and the myriad of striking variation styles like CLF for big power and unusual angles--- and on and on and on till there's thousands upon thousands of "answers" to the question of "How do I not get my arsed kicked?"
GM of Hadaka Korosu
[QUOTE=MightyB;845267]That is why in the MMA world, the champions are all well rounded specialists.This is different from some Wing Chun guy cross training in Tae Kwon Do so that he can "improve" his kicks or a Praying Mantis practitioner adding boxing to his training to "improve" his striking. Cases such as the above demonstrate a practitioner's lack of understanding for the art that he practices.
QUOTE]
Oh save me ye gods of combat... please, I beg of your divine wisdom.
F---'n BS and you know it. As I said before- all a "combined" art can do is act like a general practitioner in the medical field. Good solid advice and can heal most aches and pains- but you wouldn't ask 'em to do heart surgery. Hence the formation of styles-- i.e. Mantis, WC, Hung Gar, etc. They were all answers to a question- otherwise you would only have CMA- nothing more. But that's not the case is it? WC tried to simplify the mess, Eagle Claw specializes in locking (yet crosstrained to ad kicks way back when), PM a striking-trapping-locking, and the myriad of striking variation styles like CLF for big power and unusual angles--- and on and on and on till there's thousands upon thousands of "answers" to the question of "How do I not get my arsed kicked?"
A core in a specific style that is rounded off by training in other systems to fil in the holes of our core.
And yes, there are always holes.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
(. Y .)
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;845268]The classical turds will never understand what it means to be driven. Driven by 2 minutes- 'cuz that's all you get. In the cage, on the tatami, on the lei tai- and it's not just MA technique- it's reading sports psychology, it's time in the gym, it's nutrition- heck, internalists think they know their body- let's see them try matching their peak plateau cycle with the competitions that you know you have to win and those that you can afford to lose. Driven. Finding the best gyms, the best coaches, always working, always thinking. Driven- this isn't a playground, this isn't the safety of the super kwoon where you always play with the same other classical turds. Driven by 2 minutes where you know that other guy is just as driven as you... who's feeling better, who knows and prepared for the other's game, who's going to win? And for what? There's nothing proven, no money, no fame, no girls- at least for us working class schlepps- we know this, yet- as soon as the match ends- win or lose- we start it all over again. And it's not just for fighters- don't think that the Wushu guys aren't as driven- 'cuz all the above applies to them just as well.
That's driven- that's hard work- and I'm tired of ye gods fo martial virtue pi$$ing on that (pot bellied lazy slobs that you are)- yeah- I may be a modern snob- but I know hard work. I know that there's a world outside my bubble- and that world has mullet-ed bullet eating SOBs who want to wipe the mat with my arse if I let 'em.
Feel free to quote me, I should write children's novels.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
[QUOTE=MightyB;845270]That's pure Dr.Seuss !
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Loud City
So now this is a competition vs recreation rant?
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
GM of Hadaka Korosu
While the end goal may be different, the training shouldn't be...
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Loud City
Well, it depends on what you are training for. Mr. Judo is ranting that CMA stylists should specialize and is taking a superior training position because he competes in a specialized rule-set.
However, since CMA rule-sets are more open and allow kicking, punching and takedowns, it doesn't make sense to specialize. It makes more sense to be well-rounded.
Not to mention a more well-rounded approach to hand-to-hand fighting is more street practical in the first place, which is what CMA is supposed to be mostly interested in to begin with.
Afterall, Karo Parysian is probably the greatest Judo guy to compete in the UFC, and he's not even a top 5 fighter in his weight class.
So, it's about what you are training for as much as how you train.
If you compete in limited rule sets, it behooves you to train within those rule sets.
If you compete in more open rule sets (or train for no rules at all), then you are best advised to cover your bases, so to speak.
Last edited by MasterKiller; 02-29-2008 at 08:04 AM.
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
GM of Hadaka Korosu
I was refering to the type of training in regards to pad and HB work, sparring, etc, etc.
But to comment on what you wrote.
While Karo is a fine example for your view, which MMA champions are NOT specialisits that have add stuff to round off their game?
Either a striking specilaist that adds grappling: Chuck, Mirco, Wand, etc.
Or wrestlers that add striking and ground work: Matt, randy, etc
Or BJJ guys that add striking and takedowns: choose one.
I don't recall ( and I may be wrong) many that are "pure" MMA in the sense that they don't have a core from a specialized system.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
What he said
Master of Shaolin I-Ching Bu Ti, GunGoPow and I Hung Wei Lo styles.
I am seeking sparring partner. Any level. Looking for blondes or redhead. 5'2" to 5'9". Between 115-135 weight class. Females between 17-30 only need apply. Will extensively work on grappling.
Banned
[QUOTE=MightyB;845267]I am not sure if you understood the meaning of my post. So let me put it to you again. All I am saying is that kung fu styles that use various techniques and approaches to combat, do so within individual concepts and principles that are unique to them.This is different from some Wing Chun guy cross training in Tae Kwon Do so that he can "improve" his kicks or a Praying Mantis practitioner adding boxing to his training to "improve" his striking. Cases such as the above demonstrate a practitioner's lack of understanding for the art that he practices.
QUOTE]
Oh save me ye gods of combat... please, I beg of your divine wisdom.
F---'n BS and you know it. As I said before- all a "combined" art can do is act like a general practitioner in the medical field. Good solid advice and can heal most aches and pains- but you wouldn't ask 'em to do heart surgery. Hence the formation of styles-- i.e. Mantis, WC, Hung Gar, etc. They were all answers to a question- otherwise you would only have CMA- nothing more. But that's not the case is it? WC tried to simplify the mess, Eagle Claw specializes in locking (yet crosstrained to ad kicks way back when), PM a striking-trapping-locking, and the myriad of striking variation styles like CLF for big power and unusual angles--- and on and on and on till there's thousands upon thousands of "answers" to the question of "How do I not get my arsed kicked?"
For example Wing Chun may use techniques that are seen in other styles of kung fu, but within the constraints of its own principles and concepts. What I don't personally agree with(and it is personal) is "crosstraining" in styles with clashing concepts and principles, such as the examples I gave in my previous post.
Furthermore, as specialist as you may consider them to be, styles like Praying Mantis are a lot more holistic than you think, but mostly are not taught that way, that is, the way they were supposed to be taught, just like most styles of kung fu nowadays.
Northern Praying Mantis may have a lot of locking techniques, but it also incorporates viscious striking using hands,feet, elbows and knees in all ranges of combat, plus even ground fighting techniques in some schools.
Another "specialist" system such as Wing Chun, still has long range techniques and even ground fighting(some mainland chinese lineages). The various ranges in Wing Chun are also reflected in this style's use of weapons.
What I am trying to say is that the masters who created these styles knew that a fight does not have one single range and that one does not always choose the range in which one is attacked and nor the scenario for that matter.
So no matter what the emphasis of their style was, they made sure that other areas of combat were covered, BUT WITHIN THE CONCEPTS AND PRINCIPLES OF EACH INDIVIDUAL STYLE.
And I am saying that this kind of crosstraining is what I agree with and not crosstraining in styles of combat with clashing principles and concepts. That is all.
(. Y .)
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;845286]
So, it's about what you are training for as much as how you train.
[QUOTE]
Duh...
Do you realize that you pretty much agreed with me even though you thought you didn't?
Sheesh MK- I'm talking about the hard training approach that any competitive MAist takes verses these gods of all things purists. Heck- you follow everything I wrote.
Oh yeah- Judo is just a supplement to my original art which is mantis- but, as a former san shou competitor- I realized that I had to ad better throwing to my game- and I did fall a little in love with Judo 'cuz it's fun, but mantis is my babe.
(. Y .)
[QUOTE=HardWork8;845301]This is modernist revisionist theory- quite simply- t'aint true. The chinese concept of groundfighting is not and never has been what we consider "modern groundfighting". All forms of DiTang no- matter which style- are defensive techniques that are mostly evasion and kicking in nature- and are designed for when you fall, and the other guy is standing. There is no grappling as we associate grappling today found in traditional kung fu. What these people are doing is adding western style grappling to their style. And Kudos for them for doing so- as long as they had qualified instruction in grappling before they tried to ad it to their style.
(. Y .)
why the F--- isn't my quote feature working properly?
(. Y .)
This is True Traditional Chinese Groundfighting:
http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd2/coll_ditang.htm
Not modern revisionist.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote