Your life story

[prana]

There are many very spiritually charged people here. It could be interesting to find out what are the histories behind these people ? What special lessons have one learnt, or think is beneficial to share, and how it applies in their current lives....

[Pointy]

Sorry I tried, but just couldn't resist. :p

All I've learned is that I really don't know anything. Even if I think I know something I'm usually wrong or misunderstood.

"Pain is only natures way of telling you're in terrible agony"

[Repulsive Monkey]

The lessons that I'm still trying to get to grips with are from Jesus Christ, Gautama Buddha, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Mother Theresa and others : to Love, and to do it un-conditionally. From Taiji perspective: RELAX, "Invest in loss"(this one I feel has infinte layers to it), and to relax even more. These pretty much come from Cheng Man-ching, My Tai Chi master, Elizabeth K. Ross and others.

[TjD]

that reminds me of something i was thinking about the other day...

from watching people and myself i noticed that people are inherently selfish; some walk around doing whats best for them immediately, which usually ends up hurting others... some other people are a little wiser and realize that through helping others they help themselves - they have a broader focus, but are still selfish (just like me!)

what i would like to do is break away from that selfishness and just be able to help :)


as to pranas question, i'd just like to figure things out


peace
trav

Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in

[Shaolin]

I've learned that in this beautiful world that we live in, us humans make it ugly, with our greed, selfishness, uncompationite actions, hunger for domination over others, materialism, etc, etc, etc... We were given free wills and the knowledge of heaven and earth and instead of cherishing the glorious gift we were given we took it and ruined ourselves and everything we touch.

"The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen."

[prana]

I have one.

Realisations that you attained in a meditational session, are like dreams when the mind is back to the human world. It highlights "change" so perfectly, so quickly.

Oh oh and another one, language is such a great tool, unfortunately, too many human beings cannot see pass its limitations. eg we definte the colour blue in accordance with our own experience (receptors etc)

oh oh and another one. Someone experiencing emptiness says "Meditation is a hindrance to progress" it is silly for another person to take these words as an excuse to not meditate.

In meditation, they say "focus". When they say focus, it is focus and yet it isn't focus. You merely sitting "a" thought.

hehehe :)

[origenx]

The first chapter of the Tao Te Ching explains the concept of Ch'an (Zen): words are no substitute for reality (an actual thing or experience). They can only be fingers pointing at the moon. And so the Ch'an teaching method's ultimate goal is to re-create or produce that experience within the student. Words or traditional teaching methods are only one means to that end. But if an unorthodox bizarre action or question (koan) can spark that experience, then it equally as useful or valid. By whatever means necessary. And this becomes increasingly necessary when trying to teach a student increasingly subtle movements, feelings or thoughts (like in internal martial arts or meditation) that they can't follow by watching alone. So it is a teaching method that does not limit itself to and may transcend the 5 mundane senses and linear thought.

So, Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism is really Taoist Buddhism. :cool:
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Taijiquan is the physical expression of the philosophy of Taoism. :cool:

[prana]

origenx

excellent ! excellent ! Here is an extra twist to the theme. It is also know that to understand the moon, all one need is to understand the finger that points.

Spun out yet ? hehehee

[Nexus]

Ahh this is it! Prana, how curious you are, amazing :)

It is indeed so true that you can judge a person by their questions far more then you can by their answers, and this topic is one in which you have asked a great question!

Let me begin by explaining that it is commonly found by myself that the ego is the interpreter of realization, whereas, it attempts to put an explanation and a fine point definition to what I have experienced. In this, I came to the realization that experience exists in the moment.
That to live in the experiences of the past is to live a life that is not even your own, it is to live as a person you no longer are.

But, amongst that, we must explain to ourself, at least in the beginning, so that we can move forward, grasping onto one explanation and seeking another, like a rock rolling up a hill into the heavens. Always seeking to climb higher, and when asked where it is we stand, we describe our rolling (which is truly us in constant motion) as something in stillness, so that we can give and gain an understanding for where it is we are upon that hill.

Lets see.. I have found that the realization that one can truly be full of love and compassion for people at all times is possible. In all honesty, I found that it is the easiest way to live your life. The most difficult things I have found in my learning is maintaining focus and finding my center. By finding my center, I mean relaxing into my being, because it is truly when I am relaxed that I am whole, as it is when I feel like I am nothing that indeed I am all things.

When I reflect on the past, there was a point in which I discovered the self-concept (Ego). It was an amazing point for me, and it encouraged me to change the way I was living my life. In fact, now it feels like I am 180 degrees from then, but to honest with you, who I am right now is 180 degrees from who I was when I began writing this message :)

The realization that the true reason why it is easy to be loving and compassionate is because in showing compassion to others, you are showing compassion to yourself. The ego is an illusion, the self-concept an illusion.

It is slowly created, starting at the age of 6months-2years of age, and is formed by the way people around you interact with you. They treat you as if you are a seperate entity, and in doing that you begin to feel as one. The scary idea is that who you are and your ego's scripting was written before you even had a choice. By the time I was five years old, the interactions I had prior to that time had already manifested my identity.

Another interesting thought prana is the often feeling that one might wish to change course. It is that rising temptation that speaks ever so clearly when it does speak that says, 'Maybe you are just wasting your time no? Maybe you should just fulfill the ego's desires in this life and play the spiritual role in the next'. It is a feeling I have gotten that in itself is saying that you are indeed walking a different path then most. In this time in the world, it is difficult, and it is easier to blend in with the crowd then to wear a red hat in a city of black. When this does arises, I have found it is most comfortable to redirect my focus into meditation, and in that I find relaxation and a comfort in just being myself.

And the Tao.. And the Zen.. I wonder what I thought and when...

It all seems fun and wordy, fancy this and fancy that.. You wonder of all those whom claim their faith in taoism and buddhism, how many do it so for the purpose of being a taoist or being a buddhist? And if the Tao Te Ching were not the Taoist Bible but were rather interpreted as a guide into that which 'you' are, then would it not be more clear?

I have felt many times when someone asks me, What Religion are you? Or what are your beliefs? To point them at the Tao Te Ching or tell them to go learn a little bit about Buddha. But then of course, if you see the Tao Te Ching it is indeed saying that the true sage always stops to listen to someone who is sincere. And so with that the realization came that in just being, I am doing, and in just doing, I am being.

Thats one version. If I were to write it over though, I would write it completely different.
*:)*

- Nexus

[Scott R. Brown]

TJD,

I agree with you it seems that all actions are a result of self-centered motivation; however thinkers generally agree that some actions are more altruistic than others. Actions that benefit others outwardly often benefit the actor only inwardly. The reward being a good feeling knowing that you have had the opportunity to aid another. To act completely selflessly one must act without concern for the consequences of one’s actions. The Tao Te Ching illustrates this point in Section #34 when it states that,

The Tao pervades all things…
It is the source of all things …
It accomplishes all things, but does not own them…
It sustains all things, but does not lord it over them or take the credit…
All things come from the Tao, are sustained, and return to it never having knowledge of the Tao’s governing influence…
Because it does not claim greatness it is called Great…

The Superior man follows this example and achieves great things without considering himself great. (Paraphrasing is mine.)

An action performed because it is the correct action under the circumstances and not for accolades or credit is as close to selfless as one can come.


Shaolin,

There is indeed much in human nature to be ashamed of, but there is just as much to be proud of. Humans have not decimated each other or the earth nor have we done irreparable damage. Materialism has caused much damage to the human spirit and the planet, yet most of the greatest acts of charity in the 20th century came about because materialism created an abundance of goods that have been shared. Materialism has created an abundance of knowledge that has led to a higher standard of living in most of the world. It has created medicines and treatments for diseases that have plagued mankind for millennia. Materialism has created the opportunity for creative minds to express themselves in the greatest variety of media in history. The world has the highest literacy rate then ever before, there is more knowledge readily available than ever in the history of man. Certainly we are not living in the Garden of Eden and there is much improvement necessary, however it is not as bleak as some believe. There is more compassion being expressed than most of us are aware of; there is a great deal less selfishness than some suppose. There are more people that want to live and let live than seek to dominate others. If humans ruined everything we touched there would be no joy in the world at all.

Life is experienced as we chose to perceive it. If we focus on the bad that is what we will perceive and we will tend to miss the greater amounts of good that are present right in front of us everyday. Our egos tend to filter out perceptions that do not coincide with our world view. Our attitudes program our minds to perceive what we expect to see. I am not proposing a Polyanna view of mankind. We must recognize the areas that need improvement, but not dwell upon them. We must set an example of goodness in our behavior that will inspire others to follow the example. To experience beauty, look for the beauty; to experience evil look for the evil.

Prana,

I must disagree with your statement,”It is also know that to understand the moon, all one need is to understand the finger that points.”

This comment misstates the point of the original metaphor, which is to “NOT” focus on the finger at all, but to look towards that which the finger is pointing, the moon. Knowledge and study of the finger will not endow one with the experience of seeing the moon. Please allow me to illustrate my point:

Let us say there is a monastery whose teachings are to lead the monks to a knowledge of the taste of oranges. The Master reads from the sacred texts written centuries ago by the Saint of the Orange. In this text there are various descriptions of how an orange looks, how the tree is cultivated, what environment it grows best in and most importantly, what an orange tastes like. The Saint of the Orange knows what oranges taste like because he has had the direct experience of eating oranges and cultivating the source of oranges, orange trees.

This monastery is located high in mountains where orange trees cannot grow. There are no orange trees around for thousands of miles; therefore the monks study what The Saint has to say about oranges and their taste. The monks memorize and recite the holy writings on oranges. They debate the finer intricacies of oranges. They argue with each other about the proper interpretation of The Saint’s writings. Some write commentaries interpreting what The Saint “really” meant when he wrote such and such a statement. The commentaries themselves became holy texts to be read, re-read, memorized and interpreted. Other monasteries are built to meet the growing population of those who wish to know the orange. Eventually, the monks believe themselves to be experts on oranges and how they taste, without ever seeing or tasting an actual orange.

These monks “thinking” themselves wise never realize their ignorance because they have focused on “the finger pointing the way” to oranges and never bothered to go get an orange and eat it for themselves. During all this time The Saint of the Orange is up in Orange Valhalla shaking his head at the foolishness of men who insist that his words have more value than the actual experience of eating an orange.

Sincerely,

Scott

[Scott R. Brown]

Nexus,

A most interesting comment; the ego is in fact a reality and so is one’s self-concept, for they truly exist. The illusion is in thinking that the ego and self-concept are a complete reflection of your total being, which they cannot be.

Sincerely,

Scott

[Nexus]

They exist, and they don't exist.

It is like the story of the young monk who is studying and his teacher says to him, 'What are you?' and he says, 'teacher, I am nothing as nothing is real'.

The teacher hits him upside the head, and the monk looks stunned. The teacher looks at him and says, was that whacking real or nothing?

The teacher explains that in nothingness there is realism and in realism nothingness.

This can be drawn to the ego and the self-concept as indeed, the self-concept is real, and we all have one. And what you said I must agree with, it is not a reflection of what we are in entirety.

My point was more emphasizing on how a baby has no self-concept. Thank you for your comments Scott. They are well received.

- Nexus

[Nexus]

Scott.. you told us about what we said, but not about Scott :) Care to share?

- Nexus

[Scott R. Brown]

Nexus,

I anticipated you understood correctly. We all take shortcuts on the BB’s when attempting to explain our thoughts. I completely agree with you. It is clearly illustrated in the Yin-Yang, mutually inter-dependent; separate, yet at the same time, one. I call it the divine paradox, some things are true and not true, exist and do not exist at the same time depending upon one’s perspective.

As to my personal history, as you know I have written extensively upon this topic in other threads of this BB. Are you sure you want to go through all that again?

Always glad to read your comments.

Sincerely,

Scott

[prana]

Agree and addendum,

Such as in the dream state, the blood and rain are real. Our dream body is real.
True, if one contemplates on the finger, one misses out on the moon. Though if one is to understand the moon, one needs to understand the finger.
As the moon and finger is the perception of our karmic body, like in a dream state.

In the orange world, of course, as a layperson, I would rather enjoy the orange, by peeling it and putting into the mouth, but because I can. But by eating it or even putting it under the microscope, one will miss out on the true nature of the orange.

Just an addendum :)