Tao Te Ching Poetry

[Nexus]

I found this to be very good reading, and also incredibly well done. I will quote a few versus and at the bottom of this message provide a link to the entire Tao Te Ching translated into poetry form. Just some fun leisure reading, and also inspirational...

----------------------------------------
14.

When you look, it isn't there
Listen and you cannot hear it
It seems to be beyond your reach
Because you are so near it

This single source of everything
Appears to be an empty image
Though it cannot be understood
You can see its naked visage

Follow it to nothingness
Approach it where you have no face
From nowhere to infinity
This vacant image leaves no trace

From never to eternity
This naked face is what you are
An empty, vacant, open door
Forevermore ajar

17.

It's best if you are barely known
The lesser state is being praised
Worse is being hated
Just stay empty and amazed

Only do what must be done
And see you are the one alone
When you finish all will say
We did this on our own

20.

You need not give a yes or no
Such distinctions matter little
Keep your vision open
And be at center noncommittal

See that it's ridiculous
To seek success and fear to fail
To ever want what others want
To think you always must prevail

Other people look so bright
I am dark and void and null
Others are so very sharp
While I alone am dull

Others are so purposeful
Only I don't understand
Aimless, drifting, weak and dumb
Uninteresting and bland

I see I'm different from the rest
For I take in what's plainly shown
And I take my sustenance
Only from the great unknown


56.

Those who know don't like to say
Those who say don't know
Close the mouth and guard the senses
You'll see more than what's on show

Untie tangles, dim the glare
Dull the sharp and join the dust
Abide in primal unity
And then do what you must

You cannot hold it or let go
It can't be blamed or praised
In all-embracing oneness
Be astonished and amazed

-----------------------------------

Thats all I will be posting into the thread, but you can visit the website and give this guy some credit for his excellent poetic rendition:

http://www.geocities.com/~jimclatfelter/jimztao.html

- Nexus

[Repulsive Monkey]

The Tao Te Ching is actually neither prose or poetry. It is in fact precise methodology of internal cultivation. Sorry, I know this sounds ever so blunt and I didn't want to belittle this interesting thread you've opened here.

[Nexus]

I never said the tao te ching was poetry. What I said was this person took "a" translation of the Tao Te Ching, and then turned it into poetic form.

The actual commentary for this persons poetry is as follows:
A Non-Dualist Rhyming Riff
Jim Clatfelter's "Headless Tao" version is an interpretive work of love by an accomplished gardener and amateur mystic. (Is there another kind?) By turns fanciful and insightful, like a nursery rhyme or like a jazz riff, this compliment to the text makes the reader wonder if it is a spoof or simply the truth. If comparison is required in order to appreciate this version, then see another free adaptation of the text by Ron Hogan.]
-

Thanks for your input :)

- Nexus

[shaolinboxer]

Actually, those poems are quite good I think.

"She ain't got no muscles in her teeth."
- Cat

[Scott R. Brown]

Repulsive Monkey,

I have to disagree with you. The Tao Te Ching definitely “IS” poetry.

Here is the reason why:

The purpose of poetry, and all great art for that matter, is to express the inexpressible experiences of the artist. Because “The Tao that can be expressed is not the Eternal Tao”, The Tao cannot be expressed accurately with words and yet Lao Tzu made the attempt to do so. Therefore, it is poetry.

The Tao Te Ching is not precise either because it expresses the inexpressible experience of the Tao. As with Zen, the Tao is to be understood by each person individually and cannot be exactly pointed to or communicated. Since this is the case nothing written or expressed about Tao can be precise.

I apologize for such a short comment (NO HEART ATTACKS PLEASE). I am at work and must keep it short. I will be happy to continue later tonight is you wish to disagree.

Sincerely,

Scott

[Repulsive Monkey]

The Tao Te Ching is NOT strictly poetry as it is a Cannon of methodology in oreder to open oneself up to the Tao. When Lao Tzu exclaims that Those who speak of the Tao do not know, and those who know do not speak of the Tao, it would negate the entire book. Taoists know that that can't express the Tao so they don't bother to becasue it would be a mute point to do so (and it would highlight their misunderstanding of it too). Therefore the Tao Te Ching IS in fact a methodology of practises to help one attain the Tao. The instructions are in fact quite meticulous and there is nothing airy-fairy about it. The Tao Te Ching is in fact a precise manual, for inner cultivation, but unfortunately has been misunderstood by many as inpsired thoughts about the Tao (whatever it maybe).

For Lao Tzu to harp on about the Tao would kind of like constitute him knowing it thus logically renering it knowable, wouldn't you agree????

[Scott R. Brown]

Repulsive Monkey,

I would partially agree with you. I did not write that the Tao Te Ching was not a methodology I wrote that it is not “precise” and I believe that your writings have helped me make that case. Since the Tao cannot be comprehensively expressed the Tao Te Ching cannot be precise. It is commonly referred to as the finger pointing the way, and not the way in itself.

I would completely agree with you that it is a methodology.

I do not agree that that it is not strictly poetry. I suppose that it would depend on how one chooses to define poetry. I believe that most mystics that write of their experiences would agree that poetry is best suited for their expression. Two of the Heritage dictionary definitions of a poem is:

“A composition designed to convey a vivid and imaginative sense of experience, characterized by the use of condensed language, chosen for its sound and suggestive power as well as its meaning…[and also] Any literary composition written with an intensity or beauty of language more characteristic of poetry than prose.

I would argue that this describes the Tao Te Ching as it is commonly written in English. How it is viewed by the Chinese is beyond my experience.

Further as I wrote previously, art, and I should have specified “fine art” is used to express the inexpressible experiences of the artist. Historically speaking, spiritual experiences are best expressed using artistic means because experiences cannot be described with any precision, therefore mystics/artists describe their experiences using symbolic means. This characteristic is universally applied through all cultures.

Sincerely,

Scott

[honorisc]

I read Scott R. Brown's it is... and DrunkenMonkey's it's not, this is what it is.

It certainly does seem to be a manual-ish (sorry Nikki:-) ), but instructing in poetic form-ish.

Instructions found on a build-it-yourself, multipadlock door:

Open the box.
Take-out the locks
Seperate the screws and keys.
Collect the right tools.
Then read from "Begin",
after you turn to page three.

Not all poems are poetry~by Ernie Moore Jr.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[Repulsive Monkey]

On one level it certainly has been taken for poetry/prose by some, and will not categorically deny that. I think I was a little to Yang in my initial response to come back and make a loud statement of indication as to it's original application. Sure, it certainly does seem to be used as poetry for some, but for for some too (which is ok if they benefit from it at that level) they miss the real chest of gold that is contained therein the teachings of the Tao.

Many literary/translators in the past have had shots at deciphering it, and many schools of thought seem to have subtle inflections at to the meaning of particular parts/verses. This is natural of course, as we all know with great literature we all return to it again and again for further refinement.

[Scott R. Brown]

At any rate what is important is to perceive the Tao for ourselves and choose to come into accord with it.

There are many pointing fingers.

Sincerely,

Scott

[honorisc]

Perhaps it merely says what it says.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[tanglangman]

On the same vain.

What do you guys think of the I Ching then?

[honorisc]

Self-analysis, self help book.

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.