Iron Palm/Body training pros and cons

[bakxierboxer]

... I know of one person who developed cataracts....

There's more than the one......

[Chosen-frozen]

Would you find it "more believable" if I said that the conditioning "resets the default level of contact" that the conditioned limb uses for "a touch"?
This means that the "instinctive" touch/contact changes from a superficial/surface contact to an inch or more past "the surface".
What Dale alludes to is that in certain circumstances you eventually will find it necessary to *consciously control* your touch.
It's a little bit like being "a bull in a China Shop".

Reminds me of an interview I read with a leper. (It`s not curable once you have it, but there are drugs that prevent it from getting worse or being contagious.) They said the biggest challenge is having to consiously grip things gently. The nerve damage made it so they couldn`t tell how tightly they were gripping things and until they learned how to cope they were always breaking glasses by squuezing them. One guy said he had left permanent grip marks in his car`s steering wheel.

[bakxierboxer]

Reminds me of an interview I read with a leper. (It`s not curable once you have it, but there are drugs that prevent it from getting worse or being contagious.) They said the biggest challenge is having to consiously grip things gently. The nerve damage made it so they couldn`t tell how tightly they were gripping things and until they learned how to cope they were always breaking glasses by squuezing them. One guy said he had left permanent grip marks in his car`s steering wheel.

Heh!
It's not quite THAT bad.... unless you're training in one of the harder external types......

[sanjuro_ronin]

Would you find it "more believable" if I said that the conditioning "resets the default level of contact" that the conditioned limb uses for "a touch"?
This means that the "instinctive" touch/contact changes from a superficial/surface contact to an inch or more past "the surface".
What Dale alludes to is that in certain circumstances you eventually will find it necessary to *consciously control* your touch.
It's a little bit like being "a bull in a China Shop".

One more piece falls into place...

[sanjuro_ronin]

As a JMA I approached IP with a critical eye, to say the least, hence the X-rays and such.
Fact is it works, on a variety of levels as it has been touched on here.
Certainly one can't compare it to carrying around brass knuckles, though I have felt the hands of some and they were "getting there", LOL !
And certainly without a delivery platform its is borderline uselss.
Nevertheless, the conditioning works.

[David Jamieson]

If you don't do it with correct instruction and method, and if you think that just simply repetitively striking things is the method, then you will damage yourself and you will be unfit in your auytumn years and likely deformed on some level.

If you receive correct instruction and carry out the method properly, you will be fine and you will not experience any ill side effects.

In young men, side effects are difficult to spot, but poor kungfu practice can be seen readily in the middle aged in their overall energy and physique.

people who practice incorrectly are easy to see at this stage in their life, easy to spot and frankly, in the kungfu world, the appear to be a lot. lol

having said that, don't practice ip or iv/is/ib without absolutely verifiable correct instruction. If you don't do your due diligence, then you deserve the pain and suffering you will face for incorrect practice. Maybe you'll find your kungfu there?

[Black Jack II]

Remeber, I never said "hand conditioning" was not important. Though, the realm of absurdness that comes with some of these comments is just plain silly, and a good deal of it I bet is based on blind exceptance based on teacher whorship and it gets even more funky when things like chi and health benefits are brought up without ANY empircal proof to back up the statement.

If you want to hit hard, you better condition your strikes, but a large part of this hand conditioning does not actually involve the hands themselves. Rather it is wrist conditioning that is important.

Punching the heavy bag is the closet you can come to punching another human being without hitting someone, that and the wonderfull BOB dummy, and it is a key element along with wrist freeweight workouts.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Remeber, I never said "hand conditioning" was not important. Though, the realm of absurdness that comes with some of these comments is just plain silly, and a good deal of it I bet is based on blind exceptance based on teacher whorship and it gets even more funky when things like chi and health benefits are brought up without ANY empircal proof to back up the statement.

If you want to hit hard, you better condition your strikes, but a large part of this hand conditioning does not actually involve the hands themselves. Rather it is wrist conditioning that is important.

Punching the heavy bag is the closet you can come to punching another human being without hitting someone, that and the wonderfull BOB dummy, and it is a key element along with wrist freeweight workouts.

First off, which one of my comments or views has struck you as absurd?
Second, wrist conditioning is part of IP training.
Third, IP is done to compliment and not exclude Bag work and things of that nature, matter of fact, the "hanging IP Bag" is a great tool for closed fisted and pointed knuckle strikes.
Its smaller in size than a typicla HB, and the filling is more "substancial" than rags and such you find in a typical IP bag, think of it as an advanced HB and NO, we don't use the IP bag and hang it up, its a special bag, think about 1/4 of the length and about 10" -12" in Dia.

[Black Jack II]

First off, which one of my comments or views has struck you as absurd?

I was not picking on you, ya clown rapist

Though, to say Fact is it works, on a variety of levels as it has been touched on here, I find a bit off base, as nothing has really been shown as a fact here, if you are to take the word fact as it really means.

When people talk about how you have to be carefull around loved ones, how it helps inner health, how it is close to carrying a weapon, blablabla....then yeah I find those comments to be a little out their.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I was not picking on you, ya clown rapist

Though, to say Fact is it works, on a variety of levels as it has been touched on here, I find a bit off base, as nothing has really been shown as a fact here, if you are to take the word fact as it really means.

When people talk about how you have to be carefull around loved ones, how it helps inner health, how it is close to carrying a weapon, blablabla....then yeah I find those comments to be a little out their.

Not sure how you found out about my past in the circus...
Anyways.
I can't comment on the inner health and chi stuff, I train to fight.
But I can say that after starting IP I have been more "heavy handed" on my sparring partners when demoing stuff, giving them bruises on their arms and bodies from what I though were "love taps" IE: Shard enough to work, not hard enough to leave a mark.
the reason is assume is because of the combination of being more "dead handed" and what Baxierboxer wrote.

[bakxierboxer]

One more piece falls into place...

I think I previously mentioned it on TMA in a similar thread.......

[Lucas]

Facts for iron training are hard to reproduce on the INTERNET.

1. Very little scientific studies have been done. SJ told of his personal study, referenced the facts involved.

2. Most facts about iron training will be seen in person, by a master of the method, or by yourself.

3. The internet is a pretty horrible place to start asking for iron training facts.

4. Real life is the place to seek answers if you are really curious.

[bakxierboxer]

Not sure how you found out about my past in the circus...

What made you think it wasn't obvious?

But I can say that after starting IP I have been more "heavy handed" on my sparring partners when demoing stuff, giving them bruises on their arms and bodies from what I though were "love taps" IE: Shard enough to work, not hard enough to leave a mark.
the reason is assume is because of the combination of being more "dead handed" and what Baxierboxer wrote.

"Heavy handed" is a "good description" as far as it goes.

My own teachers look down on a "dead hand".....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Facts for iron training are hard to reproduce on the INTERNET.

1. Very little scientific studies have been done. SJ told of his personal study, referenced the facts involved.

2. Most facts about iron training will be seen in person, by a master of the method, or by yourself.

3. The internet is a pretty horrible place to start asking for iron training facts.

4. Real life is the place to seek answers if you are really curious.

I have noticed that, and this isn't a slight on you Black jack, modern sport MA tend to disavow things from TMA simply because they are Traditional.
Not very "progressive" or "critical" of them.
They have no issues in going to a BJJ ( for example) school to test their views, but seem reluctant to do the same for something like IP and perfer to ask about "studies" and "proof" instead od doing the same "hands on research" they apply to modern MA.

[xcakid]

After reading all the comments, few quote come to mind:

"Ya never know till you try it"
"Results may vary"