Bak Hsing Kwoon Demo

[hskwarrior]

well, at a tournament, Fu Hang Ng and i were talking. he noticed i have "hung sing choy lee fut" in chinese tattooed on my forearm.

he took his two fingers and covered up my hung sing and said that all he saw was CLF.

but, i have always felt that was because he believes we all come from Chan Heung.

we can all only be called CLF with no animosity when all 3 lineages blend into one.

eddie, satori is correct that he has the right to believe what he believes. he's smart, he said something to the effect........this is what i was told, so i'll believe that. he doesn't have to believe any of us at all.
but, i agree with you eddie......buk sing has in one way attempted to completely separate themselves with hung sing......and thats ok.

but, this really gets me wondering though. elder lun chee still called what he learned "fut Gar Zheng Zhong" said it later was called CLF..........while chan heung was calling his gung fu choy lee fut, we weren't.

yeah, clf is definately going thru the changes........even so far to have CLF style wu shu.

[Eddie]

I didn’t say Satori was wrong in any way, and I didn’t question his sifu or style elders. I’m just posting my comments and opinion on the matter.

I’m also just questioning the manner in which Satori is trying to bring his point across, kind of like ‘I made up my mind, and you opinions doesn’t count”. Well, that’s how it seems to me.

We are all just here to chat casually about our style (which we all love so much). In the process, we end up learning from other posters. That’s why I love this forum so much. I’ve learned things on here that are just so valuable. Usually this only happens once a few members get riled up a little. Usually the sparks needs to fly for all the good content to come out, but that’s all part of the fun. And worth the arguments.

Now, I’m hoping Satori will challenge me to a fight, pay for my ticket to Canada, and all those things…. So that I can go to Canada and check out the cool Canadian chicks. I’ll get Satori drunk so that he cant fight me, and then I’ll zoom into his Canadian sisters

[Infrazael]

Hi Frank, Satori, everybody else. I haven't posted in a long time cuz I got sick of arguing on the internet and e-thugs and everybody claiming their history and whatnot is true. Everyone is responsible for something at one time or another but I hold no grudges and I love my CLF family.

Eddie hooked me up with this thread to get my opinion and it is this, flat out no-bull**** and honest.

1. My Sifu always told me CLF is CLF, sure some might look different but it's how individuals play the techs, and what they teach their students. Of course Buk Sing and Hung Sing, Chan Family will look different because the teachers are different, their teachers all had their own influences and their respective styles!

2. My CLF is my personal martial art. I have my own influences; I've done boxing and trained in MMA for a year (focusing mostly on kick/thai boxing and regular boxing) and my CLF is heavily influenced by western style striking too. At the end of the day I still call it CLF because it's what I do, it's a paradigm I base everything else off of.

3. Forms & Fighting. These two are different things and should not be used against each other in internet debates etc . . . "our school does more fighting than forms blah blah blah." My opinion is, too many forms is a waste of time and energy. I like the Buk Sing approach the most. But just because I'm a Hung Sing man doesn't mean I'm a form freak, I mean, hell I haven't done a form in a long time actually (I've been working mostly on posture and control, and fluidity/combos). I'm a decent fighter, not amazing, not horrendous, and I'm don't like doing massive amounts of forms. Please don't act as if ALL Hung Sing guys are into way more forms than Buk Sing or other CMAs.

That said I like doing a few forms, my favorite is Sup Jee, Fu Pau Kuen (i forgot that! must relearn), Crane, and a few others. Great forms, good for exercising/conditioning while developing speed, flexibility, and polishing technique fluidity (IMO, what forms should be for).

4. CLF/Martial Arts as a whole must evolve and change. Being static is being backwards; CMAs were made in times of turmoil and our skills should reflect that, even if we are not fighting in battles. We should make our art better with each generation, that's how we stay ahead of the game.

5. Your CLF will look different than your Sifu's and Sihings, even if slightly. My CLF looks different from Sifu and my current Sihing that I train with. Find what style and flair suits you! Everybody has a different body type. I fight differently than a 6'2" guy, or a broad heavy 250lb guy.

Much love and respect to my CLF brothers around the world. We have in our hands such a cool system and we should strive to learn more from each other instead of bickering about whether my branch produces better fighters than yours (I have seen good and crappy from all branches).

-Miluo

[Eddie]

That’s what im saying.

Perhaps Tam Sam’s CLF was still just CLF, but his own flavor, based on his own background and body type and personality.

According to DFW’s book (speaking of Tam Sam) “ His school bore the name Siu Bak Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut Club. The name was too long to be spoken comfortably, so it was changed to Bak Sing Choy Lay Fut”.

Our school is lam fei hung sing CLF, but you guys can call us Lam Sing

ok that last part was a bit silly

[Satori Science]

for conversation's sake,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrB4-tNS1mI

One.

[hskwarrior]

hey satori,

that was cool.

i have a question, most of the vids you've posted are all very linear in movement.

is most your attacks in this manner, or do you guys ever go to the outside?

In our lineage we have our linear stuff, but sifu has always stressed bout moving on the outside and be where he can't see you.

one of my si-sook gungs told me that we have the sup character which tells me about the linear movement, but he placed the plum blossom pattern over the sup character which explains out circular outside movements as well.

[Satori Science]

we emphasize directness
but
have the other techniques as well
high inside, high outside,
low inside, low outside,

Personally I don't care for swinging movements(except to finish), to easy to stop hit with a chop choi

[hskwarrior]

yeah i guess.
but it all depends on whether or not a person understands the techniques and know that you would never use a circular movement while your opponent is fresh.

chop choys are my favorite fast strikes, but i truly love the power of the sow choy.

you know, Lau Chung (i believe) or it was another Hung Sing master that actually broke someone's neck with a sow choy.

[Satori Science]

My brother Hong sow choi'd a guy so hard his head hit the floor before his feet did. Personally I think chop choi is much more powerful & devistating than sow if played with the proper ging.

" In fighting when yang interposing punching is is used, I will continually attack the rival by bypassing the rival and turning my hands into yin interposing punching if the rival uses splitting, pulling or pressing. When yin sweeping punching (sow choi) I will counter attack or attack by turning my hands into yang throwing (chop choi) punching if resistance is encountered. These have fully agreed with the meaning of "yang will grow if yin is in peak" and " yang will grow if yin is vanishing"

In kinematic theory, the openning and closing of yin and yang infighting will cause the arms and legs to move. Supported by breathing and pronouncing of "xu" "ga" "huo" "di" and "yi" it leads to the vibrations of our zang-fu organs. There for our body will become strong from the inside to the outside,or force power and blood will become abundant. This is the highest aim for practicing Kung fu today. (Powerful & Gentle)

.......... Choy Lee Fat school originates from Shaolin. Shaolin is divided into Southern and northern schools, southern is firm but not flexible, northern is flexible but not firm..... Choy Lee Fat's punching is between southern and northern school. It features long bridges and broad road. Mater of Bak Sing Tam Sam changed broad road into narrow road. Thus it becomes more flexible. It seeks steadiness from moving and this punching is extremely difficult. It is referred to as "gentle" in secret.

........... If blocking, splitting punching and intercepting is met in fighting you do not confront toughly, but take the opportunity to attack again by fighting methods of slinking, sneaking excreting and striking. This is gentle in fighting methods. If you do not slink or sneak you try to break thru the rivals defending line and confront him straight on with your strong power. Supported by the yin-yang turning force of the, waist, hip, shoulder, arm etc.. This is powerful infighting methods, In fighting we shall master the following: we shall be gentle when gentle is needed: we shall be powerful when powerful is needed both gentle and powerful will be used simultaneously. This is the meaning or "truth and deceit" in the Bak Sing method."

Master Tsang Chui Yu (Jun Chui Yu) 3rd generation Bak Sing and disciple of Lun Jee
"Discussion again on the secrets of choi lee fat's (Beisheng/bak sing) punching"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3HZNOocLno

Pce.

...........

[deeperthantao]

ex-academics

[nospam]

Satori - an interesting article.

Tam Sam changed broad road into narrow road. Thus it becomes more flexible- Suen Sifu mentioned this as well in one of your vids. Yet one more brilliant refinement.

It seeks steadiness from moving and this punching is extremely difficult. It is referred to as "gentle" in secret - I believe to be the defining difference of Bak Hsing. The further one progresses, the further it will last. By retreating you can get closer!

This is powerful infighting methods. In fighting we shall master the following: we shall be gentle when gentle is needed: we shall be powerful when powerful is needed both gentle and powerful will be used simultaneously. This is the meaning or "truth and deceit" in the Bak Sing method" - there is a reason we begin as we begin. Yin and Yang infighting and Tam Sam's own Ba Gwa! Gives me chills mang.

nospam

[Satori Science]

The concepts of emptiness is a theme running thru both Buddhist and taoist philosophies though in different contexts. The two are not exactly the same in both philosophical traditions but both have influenced Chinese thought greatly. The idea and even practice of emptiness can be seen manifesting in many art forms. Including martial arts.

The way I learned bridge hand was with Yum Ging, soft or invisible power. It is deceptive as it has deep, "gung lek" but presents itself as light and "empty" it cannot be easily read by another fighter. It appears one way but is in reality something else.

"We have it seems that the starting point is in deceit, but becomes true if not confronted; It also seems that the starting point is in truth but becomes deceitful if confronted. However we still believe use deceit to confront deceit (use deceitful fighting methods to confront deceitful fighting methods) use truth to confront truth. It is quite difficult to tell a truth or deceit. when confronted with a rival, we shall diversely apply these principles in fluid ways to probe rivals fighting methods, techniques and power. All in all the true fighting shall be used only after we have penetrated into the defending line of the rival. Then we will probably win. If we fight blindly our strength will be wasted even when we win. It is far beyond our secret."

Jun Chui Yu 3rd Gen. Bak Hsing Kwoon

[Satori Science]

i have a question, most of the vids you've posted are all very linear in movement.

is most your attacks in this manner, or do you guys ever go to the outside?

In our lineage we have our linear stuff, but sifu has always stressed bout moving on the outside and be where he can't see you.

"Tam Sam changed broad road into narrow road. Thus it becomes more flexible"

In my understanding, I even use sow in what could be viewed as a linear matter (most of the time) But this is not as simply as straight in and out (much to simple), it is more akin to subtle angular and centerline control, but our side stepping emphasizes centerline more than outside gate control.

just some more ideas,

[Satori Science]

a disclaimer,
these are again concepts applied in differnt shapes, they apply to the way we move and fight not the specific movements shown. These are not the most represntative videos I have of my Sifu moving but they get the point across, I have been posting a lot lately and am hesitiant to give better examples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD1Ni8aXvVc

One.

[chasincharpchui]

That’s what im saying.

Perhaps Tam Sam’s CLF was still just CLF, but his own flavor, based on his own background and body type and personality.

According to DFW’s book (speaking of Tam Sam) “ His school bore the name Siu Bak Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut Club. The name was too long to be spoken comfortably, so it was changed to Bak Sing Choy Lay Fut”.

Our school is lam fei hung sing CLF, but you guys can call us Lam Sing

ok that last part was a bit silly

i don't know if you were tryin to insult buk sing by saying that last line
coz thats the second time you've used that line "Lam Sing"
to every joke there is some truth right eddie?

Fuk DFW's book

For the Last time! Tam Sam's school bore the name "Siu Buk Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut Kwoon". Yes it was called Buk Sing for short. But his students suggested to Tam Sam that he change the name of his school officially. And to distinguish that his branch was no longer Hung Sing. Tam Sam was a pugilist, he loved to fight. And every single one of his students were fighters. Tam Sam not only had his own flavor of CLF, he had his own fighting concepts that were unique.

So you decide whats silly and whats not?

Its only been recently that the Buksing guys started getting more vocal about being all that different and that. It just seems that every time a buksing person comes on, they seem to want to be so different to other CLF. My question is, if you then want to be so different, why still call it CLF>

Sure I see the differences, but in the same breath I see differences between all our CLF. Our Lee Koon Hung Choy Lay Fut looks different to Frank’s Lau bun CLF etc etc. Heck, we’ve even had people come on this site and claimed our line uses the wrong Characters for Hung Sing, as we should be Chan Family or something else.

Point is, this division doesn’t seem to be that healthy.

My CLF is different to CLFNole’s CLF, weven though we are bothers (and I’ve learned allot from him). My experience is different to his, and my body is different to his.

But its still CLF, isn’t it?

I think I should go register a style called Laam Sing CLF.

Our style is CLF but we are of a different branch. I've seen your youtube clip, prior to watching it, i didn't know which branch of clf you did. but after it i suspected you came from LKH lineage. why is that? why didnt i think you were buk sing? why didnt i think u were sifu chan yong fa clf? why didn't i think u were lau bun lineage?
it was the way you moved in general the way u execute techniques. i see sifu joe keit move and i see the exact same LKH influence.

So Eddie if you want to call your branch Lam Sing, do it, fight everyone that comes along and create ur own legacy. Just like Sijo Tam Sam did. Otherwise no one will recognise you as Lam Sing.