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Thread: Wing Chun Competition?

  1. #1
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    Wing Chun Competition?

    These video clips turned up on another thread in a different context. So I thought I would start a new thread and bring them up again.

    This is not Wing Chun. This is a Japanese martial art headed by a man named Seishi Horibe and called "Nihon Budokan Koppo Kai" or "Kenka-Kai Koppo." I don't know the history or providence of what he is doing. Maybe there is a strong Wing Chun or Jeet Kune Do influence in his past, but Koppo is supposed to be a traditional Budo style dating back to Chinese origins.

    I found this sparring footage interesting, because to me these guys look more like Wing Chun than the typical video that is posted that is SUPPOSED to be Wing Chun! These guys certainly look more like Wing Chun than the guy in the recently posted clip fighting the Muay Thai opponent in a KOTC event. Granted, most of their structure and footwork is off from a Wing Chun perspective, but their hands are very similar.

    To me these guys almost look like free Chi Sao without the rolling platform. There seems to be a rule against striking with a closed fist, though joint locks and takedowns appear to be legal. You have to give these guys credit for being willing to mix it up with very limited protective gear. I've never had the opportunity to go to any kind of Wing Chun competition, but I'd envision it looking something like this.

    What do you guys think?

    http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=8Stx-i-S4cs

    http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=coDVM2cvQoM

    http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyDEk...eature=related

    Thanks to Armin for pointing out these clips!

  2. #2
    Interesting...does look quite a bit like wing chun vs. wing chun.

    Although I don't think it earns a cigar as props.

    For one thing, the lack of closed fists is kind of dumb if you ask me. I'd rather see headgear and fists than this kind of thing.

  3. #3
    It looks a bit fake unfortunately.

    The slaps and chops to the face and neck weren't the type that could drop someone IMHO. The knee strikes were pulled but the victims acted like they landed harder than they did.

  4. #4
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    Nothing fake about it. It is not even a mongrelized version of Wing Chun. Lots of styles employ the straight line principals in their techniques, but this style did not employ any WC techniques that I could see.

  5. #5
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    Hi Edmund!

    It looks a bit fake unfortunately.

    ---I think they may have been exaggerating a bit for the camera, but I don't think it was fake.

    The slaps and chops to the face and neck weren't the type that could drop someone IMHO. The knee strikes were pulled but the victims acted like they landed harder than they did.

    ---I saw some pretty solid shots to the jaw land. What's it matter whether it was a shot with an open hand or a fist? Either one could certainly drop someone! Bas Rutten used to knock people out with open hand strikes.

    Hey Lee!

    Lots of styles employ the straight line principals in their techniques, but this style did not employ any WC techniques that I could see.

    ---Were we watching the same videos? I saw lots of spade hand strikes, Biu Gee strikes with the edge of the hand, and even some Pak Saos. Like I said, there seemed to be a rule against striking with the fists. If they didn't have that rule and these guys were punching instead of throwing open hand strikes I'm pretty sure their straight punches would like a heckavu lot like Wing Chun!

  6. #6
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    Good old fashioned harlot slapping !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  7. #7
    Gott agree with Ed here. It may not be completely fake, but something's definitely up with some of the pulled strikes and the exaggerated reactions that were given. Take a look at some of those head shots, if you're taking real shots to the face, you're not going to stand there and take them like the guy in one of the clips was. Then when the other guy "stomped" on him...c'mon now. I really liked the fancy ass super clean whirly twirly arm bar that was done too. Those are the times for example when you know something isn't quite right.

    I think it's more reminiscent of WWE than a real fight. OK to watch. The last vid made me laugh pretty hard.
    "I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.

    It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post

    ---I think they may have been exaggerating a bit for the camera, but I don't think it was fake.

    Hi Keith,

    I think that's a better way of putting it. They exaggerated a bit!


    ---I saw some pretty solid shots to the jaw land. What's it matter whether it was a shot with an open hand or a fist? Either one could certainly drop someone! Bas Rutten used to knock people out with open hand strikes.
    I got nothing against open hand strikes. They can KO someone but the difference between Bas and those guys is that Bas is seriously aiming to smack someone's nose in. You can see a fair bit of power is behind it. Those Koppo guys were kinda just pimp slapping the surface.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankuen View Post
    Gott agree with Ed here. It may not be completely fake, but something's definitely up with some of the pulled strikes and the exaggerated reactions that were given. Take a look at some of those head shots, if you're taking real shots to the face, you're not going to stand there and take them like the guy in one of the clips was. Then when the other guy "stomped" on him...c'mon now. I really liked the fancy ass super clean whirly twirly arm bar that was done too. Those are the times for example when you know something isn't quite right.

    I think it's more reminiscent of WWE than a real fight. OK to watch. The last vid made me laugh pretty hard.
    It is a little bit like UWFi, a Japanese Pro Wrestling organisation that made the fights look like MMA matches. It wasn't that fake looking and it wasn't that choreographed but there was some compliance there.

  10. #10
    Is this style/sport the origin of the Koppo sticks?

  11. #11
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    I did a search on the web and came up with what I managed to interprit to be a mix of several different fighting systems. Mostly Chinese systems, including Wing Chun principals and a mix of Kenpo. That I think might be the Chinese version of Kempo karate. They have it registered with the Budokan Karate people.
    I went back and looked again, and I think those boys were pretty good. You know, you can inflict some seriously devestating blows with the flat of your hand. I once knew a man, last name of Fong, that could not make a decent fist. His hands had been crushed many times in his line of work. He could slap you though. His Slap Sau was one you would not want to experience.

    Jack

  12. #12
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    Lugoman, it could well be. One of the systems of fighting that was incorporated into this style was a Philipine fighting system that also uses sticks. Can't remember the name of it now.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    These video clips turned up on another thread in a different context. So I thought I would start a new thread and bring them up again.

    This is not Wing Chun. This is a Japanese martial art headed by a man named Seishi Horibe and called "Nihon Budokan Koppo Kai" or "Kenka-Kai Koppo." I don't know the history or providence of what he is doing. Maybe there is a strong Wing Chun or Jeet Kune Do influence in his past, but Koppo is supposed to be a traditional Budo style dating back to Chinese origins.

    I found this sparring footage interesting, because to me these guys look more like Wing Chun than the typical video that is posted that is SUPPOSED to be Wing Chun! These guys certainly look more like Wing Chun than the guy in the recently posted clip fighting the Muay Thai opponent in a KOTC event. Granted, most of their structure and footwork is off from a Wing Chun perspective, but their hands are very similar.

    To me these guys almost look like free Chi Sao without the rolling platform. There seems to be a rule against striking with a closed fist, though joint locks and takedowns appear to be legal. You have to give these guys credit for being willing to mix it up with very limited protective gear. I've never had the opportunity to go to any kind of Wing Chun competition, but I'd envision it looking something like this.

    What do you guys think?

    http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=8Stx-i-S4cs

    http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=coDVM2cvQoM

    http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=JxyDEk...eature=related

    Thanks to Armin for pointing out these clips!

    Definitely looks like Wing Chun influenced. Very interesting and thank you for posting.

  14. #14
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    1st World Southern Shaolin Wing Chun Competition

    Inaugural Southern Shaolin Wing Chun Competition Wraps Up in China
    August 27, 2024 7:41 PM EDT T
    FUQING, China, Aug. 28, 2024 /PRNewswire/ -- A news report by Huanqiu.com


    Wing Chun practitioners from all over the world gathered at the birthplace of Wing Chun (Source: Huanqiu.com)

    The Southern Shaolin Temple in Fuqing, a city steeped in the annals of Chinese martial history, recently concluded the first World Southern Shaolin Wing Chun Competition. The event was more than a martial arts tournament; it was a vibrant celebration of Chinese heritage and Shaolin culture, drawing practitioners and enthusiasts from around the world to compete and connect through the ancient art of Wing Chun.

    The competition, which began on April 3, saw nearly 1,000 entrants vying for honors in several complex disciplines including Siu Nim Tao (Little Idea), Cham Kiu (Seeking the Bridge), Biu Tze (Thrusting Fingers), Bart Cham Dao (Eight Cutting Knives), Luk Dim Boon Kwun (Six and a Half Point Pole), Mook Yan Jong (Wooden Dummies), and Chi Sau (Sticking Hands). After three days of rigorous contests, 36 participants emerged victorious, having demonstrated supreme mastery in their respective categories.

    Held across multiple phases and on three continents—Asia, Europe and the Americas—the competition's structure, from online preliminaries to the final confrontations, underscored the global resonance of Wing Chun, a martial art known for its emphasis on close combat, quick arm movements, and strong leg work. The tournament highlighted the enduring appeal and cultural significance of Wing Chun, celebrating its role in fostering international camaraderie and mutual respect through martial prowess.

    Archaeological and historical research reveals that the Southern Shaolin Temple in Fuqing was established during the Zhenguan era of the Tang Dynasty. Flourishing through the Song and reaching its zenith in the Ming Dynasty, the temple has a storied past, steeped in the confluence of Zen, martial arts, and medicinal knowledge. Over the centuries, despite numerous challenges, it has maintained and enhanced its esteemed cultural legacy, influencing countless generations both in China and worldwide.

    Wing Chun, a distinctive style of Kung Fu that originated at this historic temple, is traced back to Wu Mei, a figure deeply influenced by a Zen Master during the late Ming and early Qing Dynasties. Recognized in 2014 as part of China's national intangible cultural heritage by city of Fuzhou, Wing Chun not only represents the rich heritage of Chinese martial arts but also stands as a global phenomenon with over ten million practitioners. This recognition underscores the profound impact of the Southern Shaolin Temple on the world stage, symbolizing a legacy of endurance and cultural exchange through martial arts.
    Was-there-really-a-Southern-Shaolin-Temple
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    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  15. #15
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    More on the World Southern Shaolin Wing Chun Competition

    Thirty-six Contestants Triumph at the Inaugural World Southern Shaolin Wing Chun Competition Finals
    PR Newswire Asia
    Wed, 28 Aug 20245-min read

    FUQING, China, Aug. 28, 2024 /PRNewswire/ -- On August 25, the Southern Shaolin Temple in Fuqing, China, hosted the final round of the first-ever World Southern Shaolin Wing Chun Competition, drawing participants and enthusiasts from across the globe. The event brought together Wing Chun masters from around the globe, fostering friendships and spreading goodwill through martial arts as competitors fiercely vied for the prestigious laurels.

    Following a fierce competition, 36 participants emerged as champions in this year's event. Among them, Wu Jinheng, Dong Ziyi, Zheng Zhiyue, and seven other members of the Chinese team clinched the title in the Siu Nim Tao category. Zhang Dongxia and Yang Lexin from the Chinese team, and Violeta van Gaalen from the Dutch team, along with two others triumphed in the Seeking the Bridge category. In the Thrusting Fingers event, victors included Jacob Ethan Buckley, Vincent (Fan Sheng Ming) of Team USA, and Assen Miroslavov Ase from Bulgaria. Bradley N. Ryan (USA) secured the championship in the 8 Slashing Sword category while Alejandro Luera (USA) took first place in the Six and Half Point Long Pole event. China's Chen Zhenghong, Chen Zhongqian, and Ayla Nunnchi Gordon from the USA, together with two others, were victorious in the Wooden Dummy program. Zhang Hewen and Chen Zhongqian from China, along with Leandrin from Germany and seven others, won the Chi Sao (Wing Chun Push Hands) event.


    The inaugural World Southern Shaolin Wing Chun Competition Finals - the Chi Sao (Wing Chun Push Hands) event (Photo credit: Huanqiu.com)
    The competition which commenced on April 3, attracted nearly 1,000 professional and amateur Wing Chun martial practitioners primarily from Asia, Europe, and the Americas. Held across nine different venues, the event unfolded in three stages: initial registration and selection, a secondary contest, and the culminating World Finals. After intense competition during the early stages, over 170 Wing Chun martial artists advanced to participate in the final rounds.

    The organizers of the Finals designed the competition to highlight the distinct elements of Wing Chun, including routines, Kung Fu demonstrations, and Wing Chun combat. Featured events included Siu Nim Tao, Seeking the Bridge, Thrusting Fingers, the 8 Slashing Sword, Six and Half Point Long Pole, Wooden Dummy, and Chi Sao (Wing Chun Push Hands). Participants were grouped by age and gender, with specific categories for youth (under 16), young adults (17-39), and middle-aged adults (40+). The youth Chi Sao (Wing Chun Push Hands) event was further segmented into multiple weight classes: eight for men (48Kg, 49Kg, 57Kg, 65Kg, 73Kg, 81Kg, 89Kg, and 95Kg+), and five for women (48Kg, 49Kg, 57Kg, 65Kg, and 73Kg).

    An array of internationally recognized Wing Chun masters was present to observe and mentor the participants. Zheng Zujie, a national figure in Wing Chun, led the Chinese team in showcasing the cultural appeal of the traditional martial art form during the competition. Among the notables in attendance were Benny Meng, the National Director of the United States of America Wushu Kungfu Federation and an 8-Dan Grand Master certified by the International Wushu Federation; Stanislav Bagalev, head instructor from the Bulgarian branch of the European WingTsun Organization; Erik Batstra and Robert Vogel, head instructors from the Wing-Chun Kung-Fu Association of the Netherlands; and James Javidan, President of the French Shaolin Wing Chun Association. Other noted professionals invited to attend the Finals included Augustin Wu, President of the Canada Kung Fu Association and Class A international judge of the International Wushu Federation; Jianhao Li, President of the Macau Wu Jun Fu Yueju Opera Role Association; and Yaoguang Gong, President of the Sporting Academy of Wing Chun in Taiwan region.


    Wing Chun martial artists from around the world gather at the birthplace of Wing Chun (Photo credit: Huanqiu.com)
    Shaolin culture, recognized for its global perspective and deep spiritual values, has historically served as a pivotal link between Eastern and Western civilizations. Based on archaeological excavations in the 1990s and numerous historical documents, the Southern Shaolin Temple in Fuqing, established during the Tang Dynasty's Zhenguan era, reached its zenith in the Song and Ming Dynasties, and has remained historically important due to its contribution to China's cultural heritage. Over several millennia, the culture of the temple has flourished and spread, giving rise to the Zen, martial arts, and medical traditions that have exerted a broad and far-reaching influence both in China and beyond.

    Wing Chun, developed by Wu Mei, was inspired by the teachings of a Zen Master from this temple during the late Ming and early Qing dynasties. It has since evolved into a celebrated Chinese southern martial art. In 2014, the Wing Chun initiative in Fuzhou was honored as a representative project of China's national intangible cultural heritage, underscoring its profound cultural significance. As a staple of Chinese martial arts tradition, Wing Chun continues to captivate and influence practitioners worldwide.

    The inaugural World Southern Shaolin Wing Chun Competition is more than just an international martial arts event; it provides a platform for Wing Chun enthusiasts globally to demonstrate their skills. This event also offered unparalleled opportunities to promote Southern Shaolin and Wing Chun cultures worldwide, facilitating the recognition of the art as a protected intellectual property (IP). The recognition opens avenues to further raise the visibility of exemplary traditional Chinese culture and enhance international cultural exchanges and integration.

    The competition was overseen by the Chinese Wushu Association and the Fujian Provincial Bureau of Sports. It was jointly organized by Fuqing Municipal People's Government, the Fuzhou Municipal Bureau of Culture and Tourism, the Fuzhou Municipal Bureau of Sports, and Fujian Traditional Wing Chun (Straits) Cultural Development Center. The Fujian Province Wing Chun Association, the Fuqing Municipal Bureau of Culture, Sports and Tourism, the Southern Shaolin Temple in Fuqing were responsible for executing the event. Co-organizers included the Fujian Provincial Wushu Association, the Fuzhou Municipal Wushu Association, Hadono Gold & Platinum Jewelry Factory, and Fujian Wu Mei Wing Chun Culture Development Co., Ltd., with comprehensive support from Huanqiu.com.

    Was-there-really-a-Southern-Shaolin-Temple
    Wing-Chun-Competition
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

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