Cung Li vs. Frank Shamrock

[Lucas]

Cung Le is a professional fighter. More professional in action than many.

He finds what works for him, and uses it. Rather than trying to blindly follow what any gym says you 'need' to do to win a fight, he does what HE needs to do to win a fight.

That is an element you will see every single great fighter in the history of the world displaying. They do what they do, because it works for them.

You would be hard pressed to find a fighter with the record Cung has. Remember, he is undefeated in his professional career. This includes a fight with Frank Shamrock.

Look up Shamrocks record, and look at the guys who have beaten him. Not chumps.

[Becca]

The exact same thing can be said about MMA fanatics and their idols.

What's your point?

That actually was my point. I imagine the exact same thing could be said about any type of fanatic. It's what fanatics do, act totally irrational on a subject that wouldn't get that kind of reaction from a non-fan.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i like how he always seemed not to be there when frank swung. must have been frustrating. "where'd i go ... boop."

others may have already said that, but i didnt want to read 12 pages.

[omarthefish]

That actually was my point. I imagine the exact same thing could be said about any type of fanatic. It's what fanatics do, act totally irrational on a subject that wouldn't get that kind of reaction from a non-fan.

Nevermind then. In the context of the thread it looked like you were implying something else.

Nevermind.

[Graychuan]

Cung Le gets a lot of hate from the MMA community for various reasons. There is definitely a lot of bias against him. One of the reasons is that he is not viewed as an orthodox MMA fighter and there is alot of skepticism about how well he can adapt to the sport.

What exactly is 'orthodox' about MMA? Im not trollling im just curious. Something also tells me that this will lead to the heart of the TMA/MMA debate as well. Maybe this is topic for another thread

[Pork Chop]

What exactly is 'orthodox' about MMA? Im not trollling im just curious. Something also tells me that this will lead to the heart of the TMA/MMA debate as well. Maybe this is topic for another thread

"orthodox" mma guys throw hay makers and call it stand up.
a large number of the ones who have good stand up rely on the round kick as their money shot.
cung's got a nice round kick but it's not the only one he uses.
he doesn't look very much like pure muay thai, and that flips out some of the mma guys who only train "stand up" ("muay thai") a couple times a week.

This is going to sound weird, but cung kinda reminds me of andy hug - with better defense, more power, and slightly worse hands. Both have huge kicking repertoires that hurt people.
Of course Cung's actually got takedowns & takedown defense.
Cung's got a wrestling background outside of san shou, but he likes to keep his take downs clean - staying on the feet where he's dominant.

"orthodox" mma guys tend to like to go to the ground & spend a lot of time there.
Because cung controls the fight so well and doesn't go there, the mma purists think he's finished if the fight ends up there and that it's only a matter of time before someone puts him on his back.
They think cung's opponents "just haven't tried hard enough."
I think Cung's gonna shock folks with his ground game if it ever goes there.

[SAAMAG]

^^^^100% agreed. He simply knows better than most how to control the fight.

And even though I believe that the ideas of MMA have helped to bring a sense of realism back into the martial arts world, I agree that many MMA guys have terrible hands and feet relative to those individuals that have spent considerable time in that field.

I laugh outloud when I hear the commentator say something like "this guy's got great hands..." and the guy couldn't box his way out of a paper bag.

What MMA has done well...is reminded people that even mediocre fighters that are well rounded are a major threat even to those "experts" in a single field of study.

[sanjuro_ronin]

"orthodox" mma guys throw hay makers and call it stand up.
a large number of the ones who have good stand up rely on the round kick as their money shot.
cung's got a nice round kick but it's not the only one he uses.
he doesn't look very much like pure muay thai, and that flips out some of the mma guys who only train "stand up" ("muay thai") a couple times a week.

This is going to sound weird, but cung kinda reminds me of andy hug - with better defense, more power, and slightly worse hands. Both have huge kicking repertoires that hurt people.
Of course Cung's actually got takedowns & takedown defense.
Cung's got a wrestling background outside of san shou, but he likes to keep his take downs clean - staying on the feet where he's dominant.

"orthodox" mma guys tend to like to go to the ground & spend a lot of time there.
Because cung controls the fight so well and doesn't go there, the mma purists think he's finished if the fight ends up there and that it's only a matter of time before someone puts him on his back.
They think cung's opponents "just haven't tried hard enough."
I think Cung's gonna shock folks with his ground game if it ever goes there.

Pork chop has axe kicked the correct and followed it up with a spinning back kick to the liver and finished it off with a Turkish Oil check !

[sanjuro_ronin]

^^^^100% agreed. He simply knows better than most how to control the fight.

And even though I believe that the ideas of MMA have helped to bring a sense of realism back into the martial arts world, I agree that many MMA guys have terrible hands and feet relative to those individuals that have spent considerable time in that field.

I laugh outloud when I hear the commentator say something like "this guy's got great hands..." and the guy couldn't box his way out of a paper bag.

What MMA has done well...is reminded people that even mediocre fighters that are well rounded are a major threat even to those "experts" in a single field of study.

You make an interesting point.
All the elite MMA fighters have come from a "speciliazation" and rounded themselves off as best as they can ( work in progress).
We have yet to see a "pure bred" MMA fighter.
I don't think we will.
Why, you may ask?


Simple, to get your skills to an elite level, you must specialize.
Be those striking skills or grappling.
MMA, because it combines all elements is, at this stage, not the best way to develop the highly speciliazed skills needed to make each facet of MMA the best they can be.
The grappling element doesn't allow for the striking element to be developed to its highest, and vice-versa.
Trained strikers coming into MMA will always be better strikers than fighters that strarted striking in the MMA context right form the beginning, same thing for grapplers.

[Becca]

Pork chop has axe kicked the correct and followed it up with a spinning back kick to the liver and finished it off with a Turkish Oil check !

What in the name of sweet baby jebus is a Turkish Oil Check?!?

[AmanuJRY]

We have yet to see a "pure bred" MMA fighter.

What about Huerta?

Pretty well rounded and has trained all aspects since his youth....

[sanjuro_ronin]

What about Huerta?

Pretty well rounded and has trained all aspects since his youth....

Well rounded, yes, but would you categorize his stand up or grappling as world class?
In other words, is his stand up on par with a world class striker?
Is his grappling?
Know what I mean?

[SAAMAG]

I do! I do!

It's not necessarily a bad thing...just a thing. It is what it is. There are very few (if any) universal fighters that are world class in all areas of combat. Unless there's some hidden ronin samurai sneaking around town.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I do! I do!

It's not necessarily a bad thing...just a thing. It is what it is. There are very few (if any) universal fighters that are world class in all areas of combat. Unless there's some hidden ronin samurai sneaking around town.

Ronin eh?



All kidding aside, I know a few guys that are getting there, to bad the stopped competting.
GSP has the potential, his striking is excellent and his grappling is getting there.

The only way to do it is NOT to do MMA, in my humble opinion, but to cross train and blend.
BMA - Blended Martial Arts !
LOL !!

[GeneChing]

DONRUSS CREATES CUNG LE TRADING CARD

SAN JOSE, Calif. ? Newly crowned Strikeforcce World Middleweight Champion, Cung Le (22-0), has been selected to appear in the first-ever mixed martial arts trading card series manufactured by Donruss Trading Card Company.

Slated for release in mid-July, “Ring Kings,” produced as an insert series for the larger Donruss “Americana II” set, will be comprised of approximately 30 different trading cards featuring a collection of the sport’s top superstars. Several editions of the Le card, including an autographed version and a version containing swatches taken from Le’s competition shorts, will be issued.

“We’re excited to be able to include Cung in our program,” said Scott Prusha, Marketing Director for Donruss. “Cung is an extremely exciting fighter and winning the Strikeforce championship was really a big thing.”

Le’s third round TKO of mixed martial arts legend, Frank Shamrock, which aired live on SHOWTIME on Saturday, March 29th, earned the Vietnamese-born fighter the Strikeforce world title and marked his greatest professional victory to date.

Prior to entering the world of mixed martial arts in 2006, Le pioneered the Chinese combat discipline of San Shou kickboxing, which incorporates devastating throwing techniques as well as striking, and amassed a perfect 16-0 record in the world of professional kickboxing. Several of his conquests in the kickboxing ring have aired repeatedly on ESPN and ESPN2.

More recently, Le has been touted as Hollywood’s next big martial arts film star. His role in the forthcoming release, Fighting, co-starring Terrence Howard, will mark Le’s debut on the silver screen. Le was also recently cast in the silver screen adaptation of smash hit video game franchise, Tekken, slated for release next year.

The Americana product, which Donruss launched last year, pays tribute to the societal contributions and achievements of various, prominent figures ranging from award-winning actors Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn to legendary astronaut Buzz Aldrin to President George W. Bush. Like Donruss’ other offerings, cards from the Americana II set will be packaged and sold in both retail and hobby stores nationwide.

Anyone else see the Black Belt coverage yet? I'm curious to hear your reactions to it.