Cung Li vs. Frank Shamrock

[Lucas]

He practices Cung Fu

rofl thats a good one. he should officially change his style to Cung Fu

[MasterKiller]

My honest opinion:

Frank "kept his word" because it saves a lot of face for him to lose in a striking only atmosphere rather than a full bore one.

I think Frank knew he was going to lose no matter what, and set himself up for the best lose situation his career could handle.

Remember his completely failed takedown attempt in round 1?

Frank has a bad knee, I think even missing an ACL, which is why people have suggested his takedowns were lame.

[Lucas]

Frank has a bad knee, I think even missing an ACL, which is why people have suggested his takedowns were lame.

That would make sense then. Missing an ACL sounds pretty long term. I wonder at what point he considered he would have won this match up.

I am interested to see a post fight interview with Frank now. I want to see what he says about why he refrained from trying ground with Cung. Will he pull the "keeping my word" deal, or will he go to the knee.

[DragonzRage]

As a few already mentioned, Cung Le came into san shou not from a CMA, but from a solid wrestling background and TKD. And he himself has admitted that he had 'no hands' until he met his boxing coach. If he validates the techniques of any so called 'traditional' style, its TKD much moreso than kung fu. Not that I could care less either way, but give credit where its due.

Oh yeah, but I forgot... he trained in 'Vietnamese kung fu' when he was young. riiiight. Well I took karate when I was a teenager. Doesn't mean I'd list it in my credentials if I was a fighter. Cung is the completely dominant and central figure of a Chinese fighting sport (at least in North America). My honest opinion is that he probably greatly exaggerated the 'vietnamese kung fu' influence, in order to increase his marketability to the Chinese community base of San Shou.

I'd bet the only time Cung Le ever studied the tiger, crane, and snake is when he took his kids to the zoo. ANd if you asked him the difference between pak sao and ban sao, he'd probably look through a thai food take out menu to find an answer. He may be san shou champ, but he ain't no kung fu fighter.

[SAAMAG]

Thank god someone said it.

You can tell from watching him fight where his skills come from. All fighting styles. Sort of irradicates the jack of all trades statement.

It's my opinion that only the individual can determine his or her skills. Regardless of the source of his training, Cung makes every technique in his aresenal effective--as should every fighter regardless of his or her background.

Good fight. Round 3 was the best. I was really hoping he'd suplex Frank though....oh well.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't know much about Vietnamese "kung fu", but I do know a tad about TKD, MT and Boxing and a bit about BJJ and Judo.
Cung's lead leg side kick is ITF TKD, his round kicks are typically MT, his hands are boxing and his "anti-grapple" is typically wrestiling.
Another "jack of all trades"...LOL !

San Shou is way cool but from what I gather and hearing guys that do san shou and coach it, it is usally refered to as kick boxing with throws.


I do like Cung Fu though

As for Frank's performance, it was ok, not great but of course if he had put Cung aways in the 3rd like he almost did this would be a "lame" discussion.

Great match and great sportsmanship.

[Lucas]

I think the best part was the comfortablity the guys had with each other.

The smirks and joshes were funny.

[mawali]

I think the bottom line is that he does have the physical conditioning necessary and his sanshou training is above reproach. If only the 'internal' or those who say they are, can be as professional as Cung Le!
His only weakness is that he is not a boxer but his guard looks good and his MMA (BJJ) ground skills need to be developed more. Despite that, he is far superior to CMA wannabees or otherwise!

Congratulation to Cung Le!

[Edmund]

FYI: Round 3 has already been removed, if anyone else has it...

Can't find the 3rd round on it's own.

Full fight.
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance...-cung-le_sport

[ittokaos]

That fight was not nearly as good as I thought it would be. Frank was waaayy too kind and screwed himself. Neither one had any hands in this fight. Cung le had some good kicks but not much else. It really seemed as if Frank was trying to draw out the fight to make it last longer. When he let loose that flurry, Cung would have lost had it continued but then he backed off. Maybe he was too tired to continue. If Frank at least put his hands up maybe the kick would have hit his forearm and perhaps the fight would have lasted longer.

Either way, Cung isn't nearly as great as this thread is making him out to be.

Frank isn't the greatest either but the fight would be a diff story if he decided to grapple and go all out instead of trying to humiliate/accomodate Cung and do stand up.

[shaolinboxer]

What a great fight! Rarely do we see a contest of honor like this one, with both opponents refusing to brawl and insisting on using actual techniques to both please the crowd and dish out punishment.

Cung's emotional victory brought tears to my eyes...that guy has fought his way up from the crappy regional san shou circuit all the way to a prime fight on Showtime. He has succeed in placing chinese martial arts back into the general dialogue about martial arts that is so dominated by MMA right now. After years of explaining myself to confused looking people, I can finally say "yeah, I did that stuff that Cung Le does". His use of actual san shou techniques was fantastic, with rocketing sidekicks and a classic kick catch and sweep that made me cheer and thank god I have a dvr so I can rewind.

Finally, we have an actual champion from the CMA camp. Thanks, Cung Le!!!!!!!

[Lucas]

Either way, Cung isn't nearly as great as this thread is making him out to be.

Better than most. Most likely better than you. Better than all? No, no one is.

But I will stand by better than most, simply from his undefeated record as evidence.

You could show us how much you think he sucks though. Got any vids of your fights?

Oh, and BTW, Frank did lift his arm, thats how it got fractured.

[Lucas]

People can paint the fight how ever they want.

Two men entered. One man won. Thats how every pro fight goes.

[ittokaos]

Well, no. None of my fights have been filmed to the best of my knowledge. I don't do the ring thing. Anyway, this is my opinion based on the fight I saw. I don't know what fight everyone else was watching but it wasn't as good as it is made out to be.

Frank tried to show off too much and got a little too ****y. If he was serious about this fight then maybe it would have been better. Who knows? Maybe he was completely serious but he looked like a ******* who toyed with his opponent too much and payed the price. As for Cung, I think that it is great that there is a piece of CMA in the ring out there but Cung's is quite small. Good kicks but not much else.

I think he is ok at what he does but I wouldn't consider what he does great. I know this based on what I have seen out there and what I have felt. I am not too skilled(by my standards) so I can't compare but I know enough to make a comment.

Neither one had any hand skills. They may have have had strength but not too much skill. First rule in a serious fight is to keep your hands up. Almost every martial art stresses this fact. Why is it that guys with so called "stand up" skill think that they are above it. Do they think it is ok to take a few in the face before they react. Cause I don't.

As for Frank, if he kept his hand up the whole fight, he only would have to lift it a bit more to not get kicked in the wrist. Instead he wasted too much time trying to block Cung's sidekick. Seeing as how he is a grappler as well, one would see a good opportunity to move in and "shoot"(i guess that is what it is called.)

Anyway, that's really my take on the fight. It was ok but not great. I didnt pay for it so I cant complain.

[mawali]

kaos said

Cung le had some good kicks but not much else. It really seemed as if Frank was trying to draw out the fight to make it last longer. When he let loose that flurry, Cung would have lost had it continued but then he backed off. Maybe he was too tired to continue. If Frank at least put his hands up maybe the kick would have hit his forearm and perhaps the fight would have lasted longer.

Either way, Cung isn't nearly as great as this thread is making him out to be.

What kind of language is

Cung would have lost

when he did win. That was the end result! maybe I don't get it but anyway.........
There is no such thing as an fighter who is invincible but for today, he won

maybe he was too tired to continue

but he still won, regardless of the tiredness!

just my 2 shillings!